Moldy Hay-OK to use?

[Seth Daniel Willard]

We use square hay bales as insulation around our buildings in the winter. I remove them in the spring and stack them by the garden. Being somewhat wet, they heat up and start decomposing as the summer progresses.

My question is, is it all right to spread them out as mulch in the garden, even though they are quite moldy? The sun dries them out real fast once they are down so the mold doesn't live long, but I'd like to know if others may not do this for a certain reason.

[GreenZone]

Seth,
I haven't read any cautions on this. Have been doing it for years. Stands to reason that once the material is down, the only microorganisms that'd stay alive in it would be ones that'd live in it anyway. So to me the main issue has seemed to be just to avoid breathing the dust while applying the mulch, just to try to be on the safe side.
--Randel

[Seth Daniel Willard]

Thanks Randel. That's what I wanted to hear!

[Jodi]

i actually take the precaution of letting it decompose some first. We have too much humidity here to not take that extra step. However, being from a drier area, unless you have bean receiving alot of rains lately, I'd say that you'd be OK around less sensitive plants as long as they aren't in direct contact with them or the leaves. To keep the spores off the leaves of the plants I might even mist some to keep the "dust" down. Of course the "dust" precaution is assuming it is a drier type of molding action with the bales.

[JereGettle]

Be careful of weed seeds, if your hay has them they will sure sprout if not compsted enough.

[ceresone]

fraid i'll go along with Ruth Stout (as i have for almost 40 years), if you have weeds, you dont have enough hay on it--throw some more over it!

[winter_unfazed]

Ruth Stout's method is outdated and unscientific. Have you read about how she 'discovered' it? I would go with the Plowman's Folly theory sooner.

[walleye]

winter_unfazed,

I'd love to read about how Ruth Stout discovered her method. Can you give us a hint, or point us to where we can read about this?

She may have been unscientific, but her methods sure seemed to provide good results. She was extremely entertaining as a garden writer, but that alone does not make one a great gardener, of course. Outdated? Many of the really good methods of gardening existed a hundred years ago. They keep getting "rediscovered" every 20 years or so.

Understand, I am not trying to question. I like to study garden literature and this is an angle I have not seen before. I'm anxious to explore it!

[lovetogarden]

walleye,
Ruth Stout books are out of print. I would check amazon and see if any are available. Or check your library-mine has as copy of one of her books.

Also, read How to grow Vegetables and Fruits the organic way by Rodale Press.
This is an old book(i believe from the early 60's), but a few years ago it was recirulated and I found it in a popular bookstore. The book talks about Ruth Stouts method.

http://www.plantsofthesouthwest.com/cgi-bin/plantview.cgi?_recordnum=75
You can order a vidieo of her work here.

I am a big time mulcher. Because of two forms of arthritis, bending is difficult for me. So my husband is slowly converting my garden into raised beds. So far I have 15 12 foot raised beds. I mulch all my pathways so there is no mowing around them. I also mulch around my veggies, which cuts down on weeding. Mulching is a wonderful weed deterrent, along with the benefits of the organic matter after it breaks down.

[ceresone]

Well, winter, I believe I'll stay with Ruth Stouts method, since I've used it for 35-40 years. Works good for me, but then, at my age, I'm outdated too.

[ceresone]

I'm still wondering how a gardening system can be "outdated and unscientific" would you care to elaborate, winter? I've posted on garden web forums, and they cant explain it either. and how did she "discover" it?please--explain your statement.

[Nimrod]

I have been using plain old grass as mulch.... I mow the lawn and have a bagger.. I never let the grass go to seed brfore cutting it.. I simply lay a very thick layer of grass in all my rows and around all plants,,, Im pert near weed free all summer and that saves alot of labor for me... and it appears the grass mulch helps reatin the moisture in the ground a bit longer.....It breaks down as the summer goes on and I may have to add a little here and there,, Anyone have any comments on this,, Is it ok to do this? Works well for me as far as I can see,,but there is always those unseen things I worry about...

[flowerpower]

I would also like to see something on Stout's "discovery". I don't believe she ever mentioned that in the books. As for the scientific part, she must have been doing something right. She was always giving tours of her set-up to "agricultural experts" and they took soil samples etc.

Outdated? Well that's a matter of personal opinion. I use the method and am really happy with it. There are WAY less weeds than without the hay cover. Without some type of thick mulch, I'd be pulling weeds all the time. I am not going to spend $ on mulch or landscape fabric. The hay I already have and the spoiled stuff has to go somewhere. Weeds are much easier to yank out of hay than soil.

[GreenZone]

Nimrod,
Newer growth of any plant including grass is apt to be high in nitrigen, which is usually a good thing. Grass clippings have been highly recommended for many years. They can even be used to get your compost pile to heat up! Other than the possiblity of chemical contamination (not a problem if using your own clippings, since you know you haven't used herbicides or any other chemicals on your grass) I've not heard anything in the way of warnings about using grass clippings.
--Randel

[redbrick]

I remember reading an essay by Ruth Stout in an old (1970's) Organic Gardening. In it, she stated that her "discovery" was made when she wondered why her asparagus never needed to be tilled. She couldn't think of any spacial reason, and the man who normally tilled her garden was about two weeks late. "If it's good for asparagus, it should be good for the rest of the garden," she thought (I paraphrased), so she kept the winter mulch on the whole plot and added some more to boot. The rest, as they say, is history. It works for me, and I've heard numerous reports that it works for other gardeners as well, including Jeff Cox and Paul James. In fact, I haven't heard any reports that it didn't work for someone.

Now, hay vs. grass. I used to use grass clippings and never had enough. They do work as a mulch, but what I noticed is they don't condition the soil much. It tended to stay rather compacted and hard to dig for planting. Note that this was in raised planting beds that never saw foot traffic. I do have a clay loam soil to work with, but it's not that horrible "concrete clay" we all know and hate. Last year I managed to get hold of some hay and mulched two beds with that. Another two beds were mulched with stored leaves from the fall before. I would have mulched one bed with grass as a test, but DW convinced me to let it where it lay to feed the lawn. Both the hay beds and the leaf beds showed major improvements, with the hay outstripping the leaves. Now, if only I can get more hay this year. The loft of my garden shed is filled with bags of leaves just waithing to go to work for me!

By the way, I've never heard of any problems with moldy hay, and that's what usually gets used as mulch.

[flowerpower]

Thanks, Redbrick. The story did sound familiar.

I can think of a few places you may get hay in a more urban area. Veterinary College, Police Depts have mounted patrols, zoos, Equestrian Centers. I would even look in the phonebook under "pony rides". Also, lots of people use them as decorations for the fall and then they throw them out. Look the night people put the pails out. But store this outside as they prob have been rained on. Sometimes you can even find straw bales, which are nice.

[Vera_EWASH]

I don't know about hay, but around here I get straw-bales and barley-bales that are laid down as mulch. Sometimes I get wet/moldy bales from a local farmer very cheap...like $1.00 a bale. I am just very careful not to breath as I break it apart. Never have gotten weeds, but many times when fresh is laid down in late summer/early fall I get lots of barley spouts...no worries tho as these are annual and kill off long before getting mature enough to set seed adding OM to the soil as well :)

Vera

[TennOC]

Molds that grow on hay (which is dead plant material) won't grow on living plants. Same with the little mushrooms that come up where the hay rots, won't hurt your living plants at all. I know there is a superficial resemblance, being white and "mildewy" looking and all, but it's OK.

[wilderness1989]

I've been using the Ruth Stout method since 1972, it works great for me!!!! Hay and straw both work well. If you see weeds put on more mulch.
John Gray