If I wasn't sick before, I certainly am now.

[Zephyrbird5a-6]

I just received a bill for a 45 minute MRI, my first test of the series I took this summer. Keep in mind my doctor and I checked to make sure this hospital participated with my insurance, FULL COVERAGE INSURANCE.

This hospital participates, but what they didn't tell us is that they use subset corporations within the hospital who DON'T participate with my insurance. Get this: $1800 for a 45 minute MRI is my share, plus they said I would be hearing from three other providers for this test that ALSO don't participate. I used this hospital because the specialists work through it. The other hospital in town I haven't had to pay EVER one red cent for any test.

Keep in mind this was the 45 minute test, total billed was almost $5,000. What am I going to do when the other tests, the three hour MRI, the outpatient for my bleeding stomach, and other tests I had done at this ratfink of a hospital comes in? GODS HELP ME. They're going to bill me THOUSANDS, and i had FULL COVERAGE INSURANCE. Now that I have medicare, pay for that and pay for BC/BS, $400 per month, it will be even more.

And I just spent yesterday $480 on 3 prescriptions.

Sorry, I don't mean to whine, but when people talk about a single payor insurance, for gods, I know why.

You want a good ironic laugh??? This subcorp within the hospital, Ascension Health, brags on their website how they help needy people, 100% coverage, no one left behind!!!!! We help poor people all the time! And they bill me $1800. Don't take my word for it, go here: http://www.ascensionhealth.org/ht_leaves/main.asp for their "goals."

$1800 is my income for one full month and 10 days of the following month. Make more sense why I am so angry? For one test, my SHARE of the bill is over a month of income.:eek:

The sad part is, we did everything we could to make sure these tests would be covered. Now, it's like Indiana Jones in the first movie where he comes running out of the cave, heck bent for leather with that giant boulder chasing him. I'm running, but I don't even know how big that boulder is going to be.

My M.D. is going to faint. She knows my position and tried so hard to make sure I would be okay financially. That's why she sent me there. Ascension Health is supposed to help people with financial problems. Help us into bankruptcy, I guess.

I'm going to shut up now. I just needed to vent. Considering this is the first of the bills of a two-month marathon of testing, you can see I'm more than slightly panicked.

:( Wish me luck guys.

[klorentz]

Zeph I feel for you. Two years ago I had a heart attack and still to this day owe 30,000 + in med bills I can not pay. Heck I can't even afford my meds. No genaric for Plavix anymore cuz the company making it got sued by Bristol/Myers . Heck I can not even get government help.And not having a job yet makes it real bad right now.


Kevin

[plot_thickens]

This is awful. Run up the bills and go bankrupt? Then the gov't will bail out the healthcare industry?

[Crocodile]

The medical "industry" is corrupt. It's such an artificial market, with insurance companies having too much power over what health care a patient is allowed to have. And market forces aren't allowed to influence prices one bit.

It's maddening. Those prices cannot possibly be an accurate reflection of how much it cost to do that test. There is simply no way that's possible.

The powerlessness is the worst part. What can anyone do about this?

[FritzDaKat]

As far as pricey prescriptions go, I'd have to suggest looking into Eastern Healing techniques, Asian herb gardens and so forth.

If you can find a local practicioner they are generally alot more affordable than Western Doctors (Unless of course Eastern medecine is the trendy "In thing" in the neighborhood you're looking for one.)

All these drugs the Pharma-crooks are pushing at us are coming from compounds found in plants and minerals and generally done so from the point of view that more must certainly be better. Often not the case with many medicinal compounds. Just Google Eastern medicinal practicioners with your zip code. (I think I've got some links around somwhere I'll post later if I can find them.)

Another nice thing about Eastern med's is they are all simply natural organics, not crushed down, dried, extracted piles which get pressed down into an easy to swallow, candy coated pill (usually). The big plus here is that with a little research you will be more than able to grow your own medicinals and flip the bird to Mr. Pharmacist.

Heres a couple links to get you started, most of those I had I just found to be 404 errors :( But I've got a couple.

http://www.itmonline.org/

#2 is more general homeopathy, but a good source of info & supplies thou some might think Cayce to be a bt of an oddball quack,,
http://www.edgarcayceproducts.com/

[countrygma]

I just received a bill for a 45 minute MRI, my first test of the series I took this summer. Keep in mind my doctor and I checked to make sure this hospital participated with my insurance, FULL COVERAGE INSURANCE.

This hospital participates, but what they didn't tell us is that they use subset corporations within the hospital who DON'T participate with my insurance. Get this: $1800 for a 45 minute MRI is my share, plus they said I would be hearing from three other providers for this test that ALSO don't participate. I used this hospital because the specialists work through it. The other hospital in town I haven't had to pay EVER one red cent for any test.

snip
:( Wish me luck guys.

Zephyr,

This is criminal. If I was you I would raise a stink to high heaven!!! I would write letters to the editor, your congressmen and everyone else I could think of.. I would contest the bill.

Good luck. I feel really bad for you. :mad:

I am personally studying and planning to have hydrogen peroxide treatments for a respiratory condition. I refuse to play the allopathic game which is bogus and expensive and only maintains life for awhile with lots of terrible side effects and no cure.

I am reading a book calledHydrogen Peroxide, Medical Miracle by William Campbell Douglas, II. There is a lot available on line about it.. Do a search for Dr. Charles Farr, Hydrogen Peroxide.

I have an appointment in mid-Oct to start hydrogen peroxide IV treatments. I am excited to have learned about this. It helps lots of conditions. The book addresses all the different illnesses and conditions it helps.

[heather_gardens]

We had a similar issue when my husband had to have a procedure done in a hospital. The insurance company was trying to charge us for one of the doctor's time because he wasn't covered under our insurance.

We fought the bill and the insurance company had to end up paying. The basis of our argument was that my husband didn't have a choice and since the hospital was covered under our insurance that should be good enough.

[Gort]

I just received a bill for a 45 minute MRI, my first test of the series I took this summer. Keep in mind my doctor and I checked to make sure this hospital participated with my insurance, FULL COVERAGE INSURANCE.

This hospital participates, but what they didn't tell us is that they use subset corporations within the hospital who DON'T participate with my insurance. Get this: $1800 for a 45 minute MRI is my share, plus they said I would be hearing from three other providers for this test that ALSO don't participate. I used this hospital because the specialists work through it. The other hospital in town I haven't had to pay EVER one red cent for any test.

Keep in mind this was the 45 minute test, total billed was almost $5,000. What am I going to do when the other tests, the three hour MRI, the outpatient for my bleeding stomach, and other tests I had done at this ratfink of a hospital comes in? GODS HELP ME. They're going to bill me THOUSANDS, and i had FULL COVERAGE INSURANCE. Now that I have medicare, pay for that and pay for BC/BS, $400 per month, it will be even more.

And I just spent yesterday $480 on 3 prescriptions.

Sorry, I don't mean to whine, but when people talk about a single payor insurance, for gods, I know why.

You want a good ironic laugh??? This subcorp within the hospital, Ascension Health, brags on their website how they help needy people, 100% coverage, no one left behind!!!!! We help poor people all the time! And they bill me $1800. Don't take my word for it, go here: http://www.ascensionhealth.org/ht_leaves/main.asp for their "goals."

$1800 is my income for one full month and 10 days of the following month. Make more sense why I am so angry? For one test, my SHARE of the bill is over a month of income.:eek:

The sad part is, we did everything we could to make sure these tests would be covered. Now, it's like Indiana Jones in the first movie where he comes running out of the cave, heck bent for leather with that giant boulder chasing him. I'm running, but I don't even know how big that boulder is going to be.

My M.D. is going to faint. She knows my position and tried so hard to make sure I would be okay financially. That's why she sent me there. Ascension Health is supposed to help people with financial problems. Help us into bankruptcy, I guess.

I'm going to shut up now. I just needed to vent. Considering this is the first of the bills of a two-month marathon of testing, you can see I'm more than slightly panicked.

:( Wish me luck guys.

Our friend, Sandy(sadly, she is no longer with us) had issues with health since childhood(she told us doctors said she wouldn't live to see 4 years old.. she lived to be 50..bad heart, etc).
Anyhow, she told us a few years before she passed away that a lawyer told her to "pay whatever you can, every month... they can't sue you if you're paying Something...."
I think she sent them a letter(and kept a copy..) to her ER(she went to ER only..she had No Health Care...and made little money..)...
and told them" I will pay what I can..." and she had included what the lawyer told her on the consultation.
They kept bothering her for (think it was the hospital, and the federal govt said they over paid her on SSI...so she was fighting 2 fronts, 10K...which was supposed to be paid "ASAP"..but she paid both 50 dollars a month, iirc... Something to say "I'm paying..trying" , so they couldn't come after her, basically).

I say call a lawyer. Some will give you free advice...some won't(some advertise the first consultation.. free, and set a short time limit in which you can talk to them... 5-10 minutes).
Sandy paid for her advice... think it was hundreds of dollars, though. The lawyer did give her good legal advice, though.

Good luck.

[reavilh]

I had a heart attack in 2002, and ended up having emergency triple bypass surgery. If going thru' recovery wasn't enough, the ER the Ambulance took me to was out of network, so the insurance just payed 50%. Luckily, many gave me deep discounts, and some just let it go. I still ended up owing better than $25000.

I do what Gort suggested. I make an effort by paying them each a little each month. Sometimes they get $20, and sometimes they just get $1. They have never argued with us.

The Hospital my wife went to in network started hounding us before we even got the bill in the mail. They even told us we had to go sell something because they wanted their money. We refused. They then wanted $300 a month until it was paid. They were told they would get what we could pay. When they theatened us with a lawsuit, I just told them to go ahead, and we would see. They decided they would take $20 a month. Don't let them push you around. Send what you can, but don't shortchange yourself.

[Denninmi]

Z-bird, I'd fight it and complain, complain, complain, first of all, to the doctor who ordered the test, in person if possible, or at least over the phone -- and, tell them you'd like to talk to him about this but it's NOT AN APPOINTMENT so they don't bill you for that, too.

I had sort of similar problems last year prior to my abdominal surgery -- they wanted me to take a sleep apnea test, among other things, and they couldn't/wouldn't tell me whether or not BCBS of MI was accepted, not accepted, etc -- very stupid -- the basic attitude was, well, we don't know if it will all be covered, partially covered, or not covered, no one knows until AFTER we submit the bill, so you just have to pay what isn't covered.

Stick to your guns and tell them all that you were told this test was fully covered, and that you are NOT paying a cent out of pocket for it!

Dennis

[Zephyrbird5a-6]

What is sad here is that so many of us have the same problems with health care. The are real guard dogs here, and even if you send in a partial payment, they turn you over to collection agency. They just take you to court, get garnishment, and bam it's out of your savings, checking, or tax return.

I canceled the carpal tunnel surgery. I may be able to reschedule in January after the new policies I bought go into effect. What a conundrum! As I look through our posts in this thread a picture comes to mind: a roulette table surrounded by hospital big wigs, doctors , nurses, anethesiologists. We're the ball thrown in, spun around and woohoo!! somebody got rich = we landed in their slot.

I;m really scared about this. sheesh!!!!

[Zephyrbird5a-6]

The medical "industry" is corrupt. It's such an artificial market, with insurance companies having too much power over what health care a patient is allowed to have. And market forces aren't allowed to influence prices one bit.

It's maddening. Those prices cannot possibly be an accurate reflection of how much it cost to do that test. There is simply no way that's possible.

The powerlessness is the worst part. What can anyone do about this?

Yer right croc. In GR, 45 north of us, the test would have cost $1,000, For a long time the governor has tried to get answers out of the hospitals as to why their costs in Kalamazoo County are three times as high as the rest of Michigan, but of course they just keep answering in such a way that she has to keep coming back with more questions.

It;s absolutely awful.

[spud]

Yer right croc. In GR, 45 north of us, the test would have cost $1,000, For a long time the governor has tried to get answers out of the hospitals as to why their costs in Kalamazoo County are three times as high as the rest of Michigan, but of course they just keep answering in such a way that she has to keep coming back with more questions.

It;s absolutely awful.

Zephyrbird,

The same test in GR is 80 % less. That's ridiculous. I't too bad you couldn't set up a pick line in front of those hospitals with fellow patients who were screwed over too. You could likely find a bunch by setting up a blog site.

The health care system in this country is out of control, no accountability what so ever. There is no conscience with the leadership in the health care industry or with our elected officials who are supposed to help manage it.

[windsng225]

Zephyrbird,
From personal experience, write to the hospital, write to everyone concerned! Tell them how outragious this is, you weren't given all the information that was needed and if you were you would have gone someplace else to have this done or worse, passed on this test. The fact that you can't afford to pay for this test (unless they want $5. a month for the rest of your life), which they will not choose to do. Also, write to or cc the Govenor, mayor and senitor or your county. If you make a big stink of it, they will want this to go away and more than likely just write it off. Not for nothing they did not give you all the information you needed to make a good decision. This works, I know, Yale hospital here in Ct, wrote off $50,000. I was unable to pay, trying to raise 3 kids, and if I knew all the facts would not have stayed and gotten treatment. So you go ahead and write everyone that is concerned with this and cc the big guys. Good luck.
joyce

[countrygma]

Zephyrbird,

The same test in GR is 80 % less. That's ridiculous. I't too bad you couldn't set up a pick line in front of those hospitals with fellow patients who were screwed over too. You could likely find a bunch by setting up a blog site.

The health care system in this country is out of control, no accountability what so ever. There is no conscience with the leadership in the health care industry or with our elected officials who are supposed to help manage it.

Good ideas. Maybe letters to the editors of a couple of local papers to find others who have been cheated.. and get a group together to fight it.

[klorentz]

One thing that really fries me is a lot of the docs have forgotten the Hippocratic Oath in favor of the all mighty dollar. Really sad.


Kevin

[countrygma]

Zephyr,

I was just reading your original post to my husband. I am still shaking my head over it and he was equally disgusted. We the people really need to do something about this. It is not right.

I am getting ready to go on a campaign against allopathic medicine and the expenses they force onto people that insurance doesn't cover.. I can't understand what their thinking. If they force people into bankruptcy, they get nothing.

[puttgirl]

Our hospital does that, too. Instead of getting your bill from them and maybe a doctor or two, you get billed from at least four different places-one from venipuncture, one from radiology, etc. Of course my insurance has to argue about it and then it takes you all day just to try to figure out who to call to question about it. It gets so complicated you just throw up your hands in disgust! Talk about needing health care reform!

[countrygma]

Our hospital does that, too. Instead of getting your bill from them and maybe a doctor or two, you get billed from at least four different places-one from venipuncture, one from radiology, etc. Of course my insurance has to argue about it and then it takes you all day just to try to figure out who to call to question about it. It gets so complicated you just throw up your hands in disgust! Talk about needing health care reform!

That happened to me when I was sick with pneumonia, the last time I was sick, in Jan. 01. Our policies were for catastropic.. and we had 5 k deductible. We seldom were sick so it was logical. After having pneumonia, and still having breathing issues as well as some other issues that suddenly cropped up, I decided to go to a clinic for help. The drs were osteopaths. I had checked my insurance policy before going and most of the treatments were covered. While at the clinic.. where I became an outpatient for 5 weeks, I talked to numerous patients and their families, and most had good luck with Blue Shield and Blue Cross, which we had, paying most of the charges, so I felt pretty good about things.

When I filed.. only 1800 of $22,000 was covered. I was shocked.. got no help from our agent... I canceled the insurance. and have not had any since. I recently became eligible for medicare and have that basic coverage. I was considering a medicare supplement, but checked out two policies and even the one that says they pay all medicare does't approve, doesn't pay for what I am doing..

The medical field is corrupt.. and the patient is the one who suffers. Only we can change it though.. and it won't change unless we push it.

[puttgirl]

It is horrible-my hubby's insurance has been changed at least seven times in the last ten years. Of course he is now paying one-third of every paycheck for just two of us (thank goodness my son's covered), and co-payments keep going up and coverage gets less and less. Oh, and our deductable is going up again, too!

[spud]

What is sad here is that so many of us have the same problems with health care. The are real guard dogs here, and even if you send in a partial payment, they turn you over to collection agency. They just take you to court, get garnishment, and bam it's out of your savings, checking, or tax return.

I canceled the carpal tunnel surgery. I may be able to reschedule in January after the new policies I bought go into effect. What a conundrum! As I look through our posts in this thread a picture comes to mind: a roulette table surrounded by hospital big wigs, doctors , nurses, anethesiologists. We're the ball thrown in, spun around and woohoo!! somebody got rich = we landed in their slot.

I;m really scared about this. sheesh!!!!


I'm sure the doctors, nurses and anethesiologists make the same in the Grand Rapids area as the ones down in your area. It makes ya wonder how a test could be so different in price.

I some areas where people have no insurance, hospitals attempt to charge more to make up for the losses by those that have no insurance. A friend of mine was telling me about an ER DOC up in Petosky that left his practice in the ER up there cause so my patients came in with no insurance and he wasn't making enough to cover his expenses. My DOC's leave school with loan's averaging 250 K and can't afford to give away care.

I wonder if the hospitals or outpatient or's in Grand Rapids would take your insurance. Still not a good situation to be in, I feel for ya.

[Bird]

Z-Bird,
I am going to add that you need to fight them all. The insurance primarily and then the hospital. I had this occur on behalf of our son. I had just delivered him at our local hospital in the end of May-full coverage. In July he had a serious fall out of a car seat. I rushed him to the hospital E.R. He was 5 weeks old. You can imagine my surprise when I recieved a hefty bill trying to say I had gone out of network. During the month of June my insurance no longer participated with my hospital. I was told I would have to pay. Never being one to accept that as final I called and wrote letters to the insurance explaining the situation and I never ended up owing the big bill I would have originally. Yes, it was a total pain in the ..... but, my hard work saved me a bunch. Try dealing with it one step at a time. Also regarding prescriptions of you take a drug that is very expensive many drug companies participate in reduced fee programs. You usually have to financially qualify for these so ????

[countrygma]

I am going to add that you need to fight them all. The insurance primarily and then the hospital. I had this occur on behalf of our son. I had just delivered him at our local hospital in the end of May-full coverage. In July he had a serious fall out of a car seat. I rushed him to the hospital E.R. He was 5 weeks old. You can imagine my surprise when I recieved a hefty bill trying to say I had gone out of network. During the month of June my insurance no longer participated with my hospital. I was told I would have to pay. Never being one to accept that as final I called and wrote letters to the insurance explaining the situation and I never ended up owing the big bill I would have originally. Yes, it was a total pain in the ..... but, my hard work saved me a bunch. Try dealing with it one step at a time. Also regarding prescriptions of you take a drug that is very expensive many drug companies participate in reduced fee programs. You usually have to financially qualify for these so ????

Bird,

This is excellent advise. And I am so glad you were able to get the insurance company to step up and take care of their obligation. The hospitals are at fault also, however, and should not be let off the hook for over charging. An example here.. oxygen service from the hospital is $400 per month. This gives you a concentrator and one large, travel cannister. (Too large for a small person to easily travel with, btw) In comparison, another company that comes from the little city 65 miles away, charges $300 if you have insurance and $100 if you don't.

Although I don't think it is right the charges should be different for insurance vs no insurance.. at least they have a provision and they don't scalp the insurance companies as much as the hospital does. They also work with the patient to provide the types of oxygen containers that best suit their needs.

I would also like to point out, as was the case when I was ill 7 years ago, that often the patient, is not well enough mentally to wager a fight either against the insurance co or the hospital. I was told after it was too late, that if I had resubmitted the bills to the insurance the would have undoubtedly paid a large portion of them. That they automatically turn them down to begin with. I was surprised at this at that time.. because I had worked for NYL years before as an agent, and they were great about any claims and we as agents were taught to work with our clients and make sure their claims were paid. The entire industry has changed so much, that I doubt they are like that now either.

We need to stop ignoring these variables..Just because insurance will cover something doesn't mean we should ignore an exorbitant fee. It all comes out of our pocket one way or another either through premiums or taxes.

We have ignored it too long and look where it has gotten us.

[uprooted_kentuckian]

Guys, you'll be surprised to find that I'm totally on your side on this one. I have no love loss for the medical industry, none at all.

[klorentz]

I am with you on that UK. Sure there are some good folks in the medical field but I have found that certain medical groups *cough Bryan * care more about the money then the people being treated. Groups like these tend to tie the hands of docs that do care to make sure that the money comes first. Its really sad. Back when I was growing up in West Los Angeles County my family never had a problem seeing our Doc. Back then we knew without a doubt we would be treated right. It is sad I can not have that same trust today.



Kevin

[Lanna]

Amen. I spent 30 hours total in the hospital with my oldest, and he got kidnapped off to the NICU to make money off us. To the tune of $25,000 total. Luckily I did have some insurance, but still, $5,000 out-of-pocket is an awful lot to a young married couple recently graduated from college. Add in the unbelievable billing issues that didn't get resolved until he was 18 months old...

Start calling around to the hospital's billing department about in-need programs or whatever they're called nowadays... like grants that will pay some or all of your bill because it's too much for your income. Oh, financial hardship was the magical term. Also track down a patient advocate to help you navigate the insanity. Knowledge is your friend right now.

Every time you talk to someone from your insurance company or the hospital, get their name and extension number and write them down (along with the date and time, you'll get used to sitting there on the phone with your papers). I got a perverse pleasure in rattling off who I'd talked to and what they'd said in the last week to where at the end I think the hospital's billing department gave up to some degree because they were so sick of talking to me.

At least we've since found an awesome family doc who got so sick of insurance in his old practice that he just doesn't deal with them anymore. The patient just pays up front and can submit the receipt to their insurance company if possible (half my county has zero health insurance, yet the county is one of the wealthiest in our state!). Lower prices make us happy, even if I do get to call the insurance company every other month it seems (right now we're having claim issues with the midwife charges since I dared to use her for another homebirth rather than submit to a hospital again).

Good luck.

[Train]

I just received a bill for a 45 minute MRI, my first test of the series I took this summer. Keep in mind my doctor and I checked to make sure this hospital participated with my insurance, FULL COVERAGE INSURANCE.

This hospital participates, but what they didn't tell us is that they use subset corporations within the hospital who DON'T participate with my insurance. Get this: $1800 for a 45 minute MRI is my share, plus they said I would be hearing from three other providers for this test that ALSO don't participate. I used this hospital because the specialists work through it. The other hospital in town I haven't had to pay EVER one red cent for any test.

Keep in mind this was the 45 minute test, total billed was almost $5,000. What am I going to do when the other tests, the three hour MRI, the outpatient for my bleeding stomach, and other tests I had done at this ratfink of a hospital comes in? GODS HELP ME. They're going to bill me THOUSANDS, and i had FULL COVERAGE INSURANCE. Now that I have medicare, pay for that and pay for BC/BS, $400 per month, it will be even more.

And I just spent yesterday $480 on 3 prescriptions.

Sorry, I don't mean to whine, but when people talk about a single payor insurance, for gods, I know why.

You want a good ironic laugh??? This subcorp within the hospital, Ascension Health, brags on their website how they help needy people, 100% coverage, no one left behind!!!!! We help poor people all the time! And they bill me $1800. Don't take my word for it, go here: http://www.ascensionhealth.org/ht_leaves/main.asp for their "goals."

$1800 is my income for one full month and 10 days of the following month. Make more sense why I am so angry? For one test, my SHARE of the bill is over a month of income.:eek:

The sad part is, we did everything we could to make sure these tests would be covered. Now, it's like Indiana Jones in the first movie where he comes running out of the cave, heck bent for leather with that giant boulder chasing him. I'm running, but I don't even know how big that boulder is going to be.

My M.D. is going to faint. She knows my position and tried so hard to make sure I would be okay financially. That's why she sent me there. Ascension Health is supposed to help people with financial problems. Help us into bankruptcy, I guess.

I'm going to shut up now. I just needed to vent. Considering this is the first of the bills of a two-month marathon of testing, you can see I'm more than slightly panicked.

:( Wish me luck guys.

Ya Z!
You need to fight this. Call you local TV consumer
advocate and let them fight this for you.
There are other avenues I think as well
but fight. Drag your feet and fight.
Btw! Are you disabled?

Train