Canning without sugar or pressure canner?

[slikchik]

I will start canning this summer and I'm completely new to all this. After reading part of the thread in this section about the swine flu, I'm not sure if these q's even merit voicing in the shadow of greater issues but, oh well. I have two questions:

1. Can you can without sugar (using honey or concentrated fruit juices) and where would I get some good recipes for this?

2. Can you can without a pressure canner? My mom swears she put up all her garden produce when she was young using a boiling water bath. I understand that all canning companies that publish our canning books claim the great risks of Botulism but they also sell pressure canners. Is this like vaccines? worthless when you remove the money-making hype?

[mmmtomatoes]

I will start canning this summer and I'm completely new to all this. After reading part of the thread in this section about the swine flu, I'm not sure if these q's even merit voicing in the shadow of greater issues but, oh well. I have two questions:

1. Can you can without sugar (using honey or concentrated fruit juices) and where would I get some good recipes for this?

2. Can you can without a pressure canner? My mom swears she put up all her garden produce when she was young using a boiling water bath. I understand that all canning companies that publish our canning books claim the great risks of Botulism but they also sell pressure canners. Is this like vaccines? worthless when you remove the money-making hype?

My mom taught my to use boiling water.

http://www.canningpantry.com/usbowaca.html

Here is a link that I think you will find helpful!

[lreef]

No, get the pressure canner. Yes, grandma did can with a boiling water canner but yikes I'd like to think we've made some advances in food safety since that time. It's worth spending the 60 at walmart to know you're not going to kill someone.

As far as canning without sugar I think you can. Call your local extension office they would have the most updated info on that. Here's a really good site maybe you can use something off of it.

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/uga/using_press_canners.html

[blonde_princess]

Have you checked out the "Preserving the Harvest" social group on here? There's lots of good recipes there. :)

Yes, you CAN use boiling water. If ya do an internet search, look for "Water-Bath Canning". That should pull ya up a lot of info. Water-bath canning is recommended for most fruits, the high acid veggies like tomatoes and peppers, sauerkraut, and all pickles and relishes.

Supposedly, pressure canning is nexessary for foods that are low is acid including corn, beans, carrots, beets, greens, and most garden veggies. They say that the boiling water alone is not enough to destroy botulism causing organisms that may be present...

[mmmtomatoes]

Have you checked out the "Preserving the Harvest" social group on here? There's lots of good recipes there. :)

Yes, you CAN use boiling water. If ya do an internet search, look for "Water-Bath Canning". That should pull ya up a lot of info. Water-bath canning is recommended for most fruits, the high acid veggies like tomatoes and peppers, sauerkraut, and all pickles and relishes.

Supposedly, pressure canning is nexessary for foods that are low is acid including corn, beans, carrots, beets, greens, and most garden veggies. They say that the boiling water alone is not enough to destroy botulism causing organisms that may be present...

Yes I agree! I am going to boil my salsa. But I am going to purchase a pressure cooker for other things. I might even be able to find one for free. I hate paying for things.

[lreef]

I stand corrected yes you do use the boiling water for some things, such as pickles and salsas things like that. But Silkchik had said garden produce so I assumed veggies which are now recommended to be pressure canned. The site I linked is from the National Center for Food Preservation it has lists for what is safe to be water or pressure canned. A lot of pressure canners can also be used as water bath canners too.

[reubenT]

we've canned by 3 basic methods;

1. pressure cooker

2. boiling water bath

3. open kettle method


no 3 is the one we've used most in the last several years. No sugar, nothing but the food itself.

It's more suted to the fruits that're a bit acid, for non acid vegetables I think the pressure canner would be better.

We just prepare the fruit, mostly tree fruits vine fruits, berries and tomatos, cored and/or cut up enough to get in the jar, cook it, put clean jars in the oven and heat them to around 212, put the jar lids in a small kettle of water and boil. Using kitchen gloves and jar grippers take hot jars out of the oven, fill with hot fruit, screw on the hot lids with rings (be sure the jar rim is clean) and set aside on a towel to cool, the lids will pop down as they cool and it's done. Check them later for unsealed jars, there's usually an occasional one that dosn't seal, open it and add to the next batch or use it. Years ago we found that ball brand lids sealed better than kerr brand but I don't know if that's still valid. I grew up helping my mamma do it, and she grew up helping her mamma do it, etc.


My aunt and uncle in MI canned a lot of fruit, (SE MI is fruit growing center) It's easy to get a lot of too ripe for shipping fruit cheap there. They canned a lot by water bath, and made a wood fired canner out of an old 55 gal barrol cut in half with one end flipped over and welded back on the other end, a hole cut in one side of the bottom to feed a fire and a hole in the other side for a chimney. Actually It'd work with only half the barrol set on 3-4 rocks and a fire under it. And it needs a spacer plate or grid of some kind layed in the bottom and suported an inch or so above the bottom for the jars to sit on so they arn't sitting right on the bottom against the heated metal.

[mmmtomatoes]

we've canned by 3 basic methods;

1. pressure cooker

2. boiling water bath

3. open kettle method

We just prepare the fruit, mostly tree fruits vine fruits, berries and tomatos, cored and/or cut up enough to get in the jar, cook it, put clean jars in the oven and heat them to around 212, put the jar lids in a small kettle of water and boil. Using kitchen gloves and jar grippers take hot jars out of the oven, fill with hot fruit, screw on the hot lids with rings (be sure the jar rim is clean) and set aside on a towel to cool, the lids will pop down as they cool and it's done. Check them later for unsealed jars, there's usually an occasional one that dosn't seal, open it and add to the next batch or use it. Years ago we found that ball brand lids sealed better than kerr brand but I don't know if that's still valid. I grew up helping my mamma do it, and she grew up helping her mamma do it, etc.




I think Ball owns Kerr. Is it just a cheaper brand? I have always used Ball when I would help my mom. As for the open kettle method, I think I might try it this year.

[mjc]

Altrista Corp. owns Ball, Kerr and Golden Harvest...basically everything canning related that isn't European.

Fruit and high acid veggies are fine in a boiling water bath. Other things may be all right at low altitudes but anything over about 1000' and you've lowered the boiling point of water enough that it won't kill the botulinum spores, no matter how long you boil it.

Years ago we bought a real nice cast aluminum canner (one of these (http://www.allamericancanner.com/allamerican915pressurecanner.htm)), and I do use (not as much as I could) for things other than canning. This thing is virtually indestructible...

[Locavore]

mjc--I've looked at that model before and would love to get it--can't afford it at the moment.

I'm so paranoid of canning since I've never done it or seen it done. It can't be all that hard, but I would really feel better if I had someone to walk me through it the first time--especially water bath canning. Maybe I'll get up my nerve this year--I would really like to can my tomatoes to save freezer space!

[blackberrygrl]

I'll be canning for the first time this year as well. I did make a jar of salsa last year and put it in boiling water for like 10 minutes. We jumped into it within a month, so I don't know how long it really would have lasted. It tasted great, though.

I guess I didn't know you HAD to use sugar. Why would that be?

[KelsieG]

I got myself a pressure canner off of Ebay. I'm going to try taking it to my county Extension office so that they can check the gauge on it.

Last year, I picked many buckets of blackberries and decided I'd make and can blackberry jam. I got everything ready and started the canning process. I was about 10 minutes into boiling my first batch of jars when I realized I had never done this in my life and that I technically shouldn't have any idea of how to do it. But I had sterilized the jars, rings, and lids and prepped the jam, and I even knew to wait for the "pop" of the lids....and that's when it dawned on me. I had stood in my grandmother's kitchen as a little girl, every weekend, for years, watching her can the things she brought in from her garden. Without even knowing it, I had learned how! Talk about preserving a tradition!!

My jam turned out great (we're still eating on it!!), but now that I want to can more and different things, I've gotten myself a book and, like I said, a pressure canner. I can't wait to make pickles this year, and spaghetti sauce!

[mjc]

Sugar isn't an absolute 'must use' item...but you can't get a really good set on jelly without it. Most other things, fruit included, can be canned without added sugar.

[tweed]

Use a pressure canner if there are low acid foods involved.
Use a water bath canner if it is all high acid food.
No exceptions that I have ever seen.

Steve

[mmmtomatoes]

I got myself a pressure canner off of Ebay. I'm going to try taking it to my county Extension office so that they can check the gauge on it.

Last year, I picked many buckets of blackberries and decided I'd make and can blackberry jam. I got everything ready and started the canning process. I was about 10 minutes into boiling my first batch of jars when I realized I had never done this in my life and that I technically shouldn't have any idea of how to do it. But I had sterilized the jars, rings, and lids and prepped the jam, and I even knew to wait for the "pop" of the lids....and that's when it dawned on me. I had stood in my grandmother's kitchen as a little girl, every weekend, for years, watching her can the things she brought in from her garden. Without even knowing it, I had learned how! Talk about preserving a tradition!!

My jam turned out great (we're still eating on it!!), but now that I want to can more and different things, I've gotten myself a book and, like I said, a pressure canner. I can't wait to make pickles this year, and spaghetti sauce!

Thats a really great story:)

[ratdog]

mjc--I've looked at that model before and would love to get it--can't afford it at the moment.

I'm so paranoid of canning since I've never done it or seen it done. It can't be all that hard, but I would really feel better if I had someone to walk me through it the first time--especially water bath canning. Maybe I'll get up my nerve this year--I would really like to can my tomatoes to save freezer space!

For years I have used the "Ball Blue Book The Guide to Home Canning and Freezing". It has very easy to follow instructions. You can buy it here http://www.amazon.com/Ball-Blue-Guide-Canning-Freezing/dp/B000FUAOJ2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241065221&sr=1-3

We hot water bath can, tomatoes,sauerkraut,salsa,pickled beets, sweet and dill pickles, cauliflower,ect. Haven't poisoned anyone yet.:D

[lorna-organic]

Yes, that is a good story, Kelsie.

[kellygirrl]

...Years ago we bought a real nice cast aluminum canner...

How do you feel about the cast aluminum? You think it's stable? You think I could find a stainless steel?

[mjc]

Yeah, it's stable...been using it for 18 years now. The only thing that's happened is it has darkened and lost the 'polish'. Probably last at least another 80 yrs...

It has very thick walls and lid/to rim is machined so no gasket is needed. The first year we had it we did around 100 quarts of beans in it...and it gets on average 100 quarts of things a year (some years much more). I've gone through two boiling water bath canners in that time (I mostly use a large stainless steel stock pot these days).

This year is the first year that I expect a little bit of a problem with it...it got some water-based polyurethane spilled on it a few weeks ago and it is going to be a pain to clean it off...:rolleyes:

[kellygirrl]

But how do you know the aluminum doesn't leach into food? It's more stable in that regard than other aluminum pots?

[Emerald]

But how do you know the aluminum doesn't leach into food? It's more stable in that regard than other aluminum pots?

___You're not cooking in the aluminum pressure canner-- you cook and prep your foods in stainless steel/or what ever you cook in and then you load the glass jars and add the lids and rings, and that goes into the aluminum pressure canner- I wouldn't worry about it leaching into the jars at the heat it makes the inside of the jar is putting its pressure out of the jar and when you cool them it makes the space you left in the jar try to pull that air in (well it is a vaccum of sorts) and that makes the jar lid ping down and seal the jar.
___If you go to
http://www.freshpreserving.com/pages/preserving_club/7.php
It will explain what I am clumsily trying to say.
___Even tho salsa has tomatoes in it the addition of veggies will lower the acid level- so you should stick to the salsa recipes that have been tested or pressure can your salsa. You don't have to use sugar in your salsa- that is for jams and jellys and other sweet fruit things. Sugar alone is a fine preservative.
___I don't mean to make it sound so hard but it does pay to read up on it and see if there is a canning class, or someone you know that cans.. check at your local extension office, they might be able to point you to a class. Not all places will have that kind of information.
__ The number one rule of canning-- If in doubt, throw it out.

[bunkie]

em, we go with that number one rule too!

........Years ago we bought a real nice cast aluminum canner (one of these (http://www.allamericancanner.com/allamerican915pressurecanner.htm)), and I do use (not as much as I could) for things other than canning. This thing is virtually indestructible...

we bought an All American Canner last year too and love it! as when i started out canning, i was very afraid at first, but HOD and DUN got me through it with PMs of specifics. now it's like second nature!

mjc--I've looked at that model before and would love to get it--can't afford it at the moment.

I'm so paranoid of canning since I've never done it or seen it done. It can't be all that hard, but I would really feel better if I had someone to walk me through it the first time--especially water bath canning. Maybe I'll get up my nerve this year--I would really like to can my tomatoes to save freezer space!

go for it locavore! i understand the fear. had it when i first started canning 15 plus years ago, but, with hubby and kind instructions from the woman who gave it to me, i managed to overcome the fear quickly. it's so easy after the first and second time. i made hubby follow me through both two times, then i felt safe and confident to do it alone after that. once you realize that the canner is NOT going to blow up in your face, you feel a lot better! :D

someone asked about using fruit juice instead of sugar, i think? i have canned pears and peaches and used apple juice or grape juice aand it's been a great success!

[kellygirrl]

___You're not cooking in the aluminum pressure canner...I wouldn't worry about it leaching into the jars ...

Du-h:o. I guess that's all you use a canner for, then canning. Okay, I can live with that.:o:o:o

[w8in4dave]

I have found that if you pressure can Tomatoes all the meat is at the top .. It is still good but it is to much pressure for the tomatoes and tears them up. I have a friend that does it all the time she doesn't mind. I water bath mine they look much better. We also make saurkraut, water bath that also, but you can pressure can that just fine. My daughter in law tried to water bath tomatoes last year and thought she'd keep them going longer to be safe and all her lids kinked on her.. This year we will be doing them together.

[mjc]

A couple of good links...including recipes.

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/

http://lancaster.unl.edu/food/foodpres.shtml#unsafe

[bunkie]

I have found that if you pressure can Tomatoes all the meat is at the top .. It is still good but it is to much pressure for the tomatoes and tears them up. I have a friend that does it all the time she doesn't mind. I water bath mine they look much better. We also make saurkraut, water bath that also, but you can pressure can that just fine............

we've had the macerated toms too. what i do now is to cook them as little as possible before i can them. also, leaving them in almost whole parts and not cutting them up much helps...when they break down, the bits are bigger.:D

[jemarmy]

mjc--I've looked at that model before and would love to get it--can't afford it at the moment.

I'm so paranoid of canning since I've never done it or seen it done. It can't be all that hard, but I would really feel better if I had someone to walk me through it the first time--especially water bath canning. Maybe I'll get up my nerve this year--I would really like to can my tomatoes to save freezer space!

Look on youtube, there are lots of videos on there about canning. :)

[Desert Rat]

Yeah, it's stable...been using it for 18 years now. The only thing that's happened is it has darkened and lost the 'polish'. Probably last at least another 80 yrs...

It has very thick walls and lid/to rim is machined so no gasket is needed. The first year we had it we did around 100 quarts of beans in it...and it gets on average 100 quarts of things a year (some years much more). I've gone through two boiling water bath canners in that time (I mostly use a large stainless steel stock pot these days).

This year is the first year that I expect a little bit of a problem with it...it got some water-based polyurethane spilled on it a few weeks ago and it is going to be a pain to clean it off...:rolleyes:

I have a large stainless Revereware Stockpot, I can use that for the waterbath method?

[tweed]

I have a large stainless Revereware Stockpot, I can use that for the waterbath method?

If you have a rack that will prevent the bottoms of the jars from touching the bottom of the pan, it will work as far as I know.
Anyone can correct me if that is wrong, please.

Steve

[jemarmy]

Desert Rat, that should work fine. You just need a big pot, taller than your jars.

About the book ratdog(i think?) mentioned, check your library for it, too. Mine has a great selection of books about canning and preserving food.

I have my grandmother's ball books and after losing half my grape juice using an antiquated method from her book, I double check with the more recent edition. The old recipes are still nice, I just make sure the recommendations for time/pressure/etc. are up to date.

One year I had trouble with my grape preserves getting sugar crystals. I should probably try to figure out what I did wrong there. It was still good to eat, just a little crunchy. :p

[kellygirrl]

Jemarmy, how do you make your grape juice? Are they seedless? I was juicing mine this summer, seeds and all in my twin gear juicer, but it was very cumbersome, the machine did not like the seeds. But I do, that is a garden medicinal for sure. I would like to juice it easier and preserve it, tho I'd like to not cook it in hot water, and may look into fermented storage or something...

PS a little crunchy peanut butter to go with your crunchy jelly, yer good!

[bunkie]

.........One year I had trouble with my grape preserves getting sugar crystals. I should probably try to figure out what I did wrong there. It was still good to eat, just a little crunchy. :p

ewww...crunchy jelly???! here's some info on the crystalizing jemarmy...

To prepare juice. Sort, wash, and remove stems from fully ripe grapes. Crush grapes, add water, cover, bring to boil on high heat. Reduce heat and simmer for 10 minutes. Extract juice. To prevent formation of tartrate crystals in the jelly, let juice stand in a cool place overnight, then strain through two thicknesses of damp cheesecloth to remove crystals that have formed.........

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_07/grape_jelly_powder.html

Let's Preserve Newsletter
May 25, 2006 ... Prevent crystal formation by extracting grape juice, cooling overnight..........

http://lancaster.extension.psu.edu/Nutrition/LetsPreserveNewsletters/LetsPreserve2005/LPSeptOct2005.pdf

[jemarmy]

Jemarmy, how do you make your grape juice? Are they seedless? I was juicing mine this summer, seeds and all in my twin gear juicer, but it was very cumbersome, the machine did not like the seeds. But I do, that is a garden medicinal for sure. I would like to juice it easier and preserve it, tho I'd like to not cook it in hot water, and may look into fermented storage or something...

PS a little crunchy peanut butter to go with your crunchy jelly, yer good!

LOL I should try it with the crunchy pb, for sure. :D
Bunkie, thank you for that info!

About the grape juice- I used grapes with seeds. I put 1 cup of whole grapes in each quart jar. Then I added between 1/2 cup and 1 cup of sugar. (We prefer the 1/2 cup- for the jars with a whole cup we add an equal part of water when we drink it.) Then we filled the jar with boiling water and processed it. Super easy!
Eventually I'd like to try making juice the other way to see how it compares, (squishing the grapes, etc.) but for now, I'm liking the quick, easy method. You wait 6 weeks before you drink it. You can see the color leach from the skins, it's a pretty, rose color. Then when you drink it you can either eat the grapes or toss them.
Easy-peasy.:D

[Emerald]

I have a large stainless Revereware Stockpot, I can use that for the waterbath method?

___Yes you can use that stock pot, just take about 7 extra canning rings and use some none plastic covered wire and wire them together like a flower pattern, one ring in the middle with the six other rings around it in a circle, wire them together and they sit on the bottom of your stock pot and it keeps the jars off the bottom-- now just make sure that when you fill it with jars and water that the boiling water will come up over the tops of the jars by at least 1 full inch, 2 inches is better. One hint that worked fine for me-- look for those little kits that they sell to make your first batch of salsa- in the box it comes with the food funnel, the jar tongs and sometimes it has that little magnetic wand to get lids out of the hot water with, if you buy the tongs and funnel alone- it is the same price, plus you get jars too.
___I am looking to buy an outdoor turkey fryer at a yard sale and hoping to find one that has the big frying basket (for fish frys) with it, so I can do the hot water bath outside and not heat up the whole house, only downside to that is- I have to get the hubby to put it in the water and take it out-- too heavy for me.:o

ETA: I just went looking online for the box kit that I bought, but I just can't seem to find it. I was in the canning area in the store and it came with 6 pint jars, with lids and rings and the jar tongs and funnel and the salsa mix that they put out that you just add your tomatoes to. If I find it I will put it up for ya.

[w8in4dave]

we've had the macerated toms too. what i do now is to cook them as little as possible before i can them. also, leaving them in almost whole parts and not cutting them up much helps...when they break down, the bits are bigger.:D

Yea I cut mine in half. But man I'm tellin ya there is nothing better than home canned tomatoes and saurkraut... It is alot of work , very time consuming , but it is well worth it!

[mhargus.ozarks]

The Ozarks Regional Foundation will be presenting the following workshops at the Baker Creek May 3-4 Festival. Hope to see you there!!


Each session cost $3

SUNDAY MAY 3rd:
11 AM - 12:30 PM : CANNING/PRESERVING AND MAKING JELLY
1 PM - 2:30 PM : ORGANIC/NATURAL COMPOSTING
1 PM - 2:30 PM : MAKING CHEESE & BUTTER - 1
1:30 PM - 3 PM : GARDEN PLANNING AND DESIGN
3 PM - 4:30 PM : MAKING CHEESE & BUTTER - 2
3:30 PM - 5 PM : LANDSCAPING WITH NATURAL STONES

Monday MAY 4th :
10:30 AM - 12 N: "SQUARE-FOOT GARDENING"/BUILDING RAISED GARDEN BEDS
11 AM - 12:30 PM : CANNING/PRESERVING AND MAKING JELLY
1 PM - 2:30 PM : CANNING/PRESERVING AND MAKING JELLY
1:30 PM - 3 PM : MAKING CHEESE & BUTTER - 1
1:30 PM - 3 PM : "SQUARE-FOOT GARDENING"/BUILDING RAISED GARDEN BEDS
3:30 PM - 5 PM : MAKING CHEESE & BUTTER - 2

[tweed]

The Ozarks Regional Foundation will be presenting the following workshops at the Baker Creek May 3-4 Festival. Hope to see you there!!


Each session cost $3

SUNDAY MAY 3rd:
11 AM - 12:30 PM : CANNING/PRESERVING AND MAKING JELLY
1 PM - 2:30 PM : ORGANIC/NATURAL COMPOSTING
1 PM - 2:30 PM : MAKING CHEESE & BUTTER - 1
1:30 PM - 3 PM : GARDEN PLANNING AND DESIGN
3 PM - 4:30 PM : MAKING CHEESE & BUTTER - 2
3:30 PM - 5 PM : LANDSCAPING WITH NATURAL STONES

Monday MAY 4th :
10:30 AM - 12 N: "SQUARE-FOOT GARDENING"/BUILDING RAISED GARDEN BEDS
11 AM - 12:30 PM : CANNING/PRESERVING AND MAKING JELLY
1 PM - 2:30 PM : CANNING/PRESERVING AND MAKING JELLY
1:30 PM - 3 PM : MAKING CHEESE & BUTTER - 1
1:30 PM - 3 PM : "SQUARE-FOOT GARDENING"/BUILDING RAISED GARDEN BEDS
3:30 PM - 5 PM : MAKING CHEESE & BUTTER - 2


Thanks, mhargus. Wish I could make it to Bakers Creek sometime.
Cheese and butter making interests me a lot.

Steve

[ratdog]

Yea I cut mine in half. But man I'm tellin ya there is nothing better than home canned tomatoes and saurkraut... It is alot of work , very time consuming , but it is well worth it!

You got it!:D

[w8in4dave]

I have won chili cook offs and soup cook offs and I swear it is because I use my canned tomatoes ohhhh it tast so much fresher :)

[babygarden]

We make Indian pickles and chutneys, etc. without canning but with salt/oil/spices. I remember reading someone on here had been to Russia or someplace and had found vegetable preserved in jars simply in a brine or some other kind of solution and there was a discussion. It was about a year ago, had some good information on it, but unfortunately I can't find it at the moment.

Will post a separate thread in here to see he comes back with the link or someone else might have the info.

I did find this though:
http://www.russianfoods.com/recipes/item00075/default.asp

http://www.answers.com/topic/preserving-1

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:MVVEs4YPGDkJ:users.frii.com/jimhayes/LoveLandLocal/Lactofermented_Vegetables.doc+russia+preserve+vege tables+vinegar&cd=18&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a


I'm also interested in how to can in different ways as I want to make sauces, etc. but am also going to try this brine method too, because as I remember it, it supposedly keeps the vegetables closer to their original form (i.e., crispy and not mush). Will post now a thread asking if someone has this info.

:)

[bunkie]

babygarden, i've been wondering the same thing about making veggies more crunchy in the jars. our canned carrots this year were just too soft.

while writing this, i was thinking about our dill pickles. the recipe was from an old farm wife and to make the pickles crunchy, she put the cucumber spears in ice cold water for at least 2 hours (no more than 8) before she put them in the jars with the brine. it really works well and they have a nice crunch to them. maybe this would work for carrots and other veggies?

[babygarden]

Way to go Emerald -she found it!
She has posted the link and more info on the thread I put request in:

http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10694&highlight=lacto+fermentation

http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17956

This is really neat, and want to try it. Bunkie, awesome pickle tips, will try that as well. I want to try some lemon cucumber pickles and bet that would be really yummy done that way. :)
Will try a search for the original post on this from before, this looks like maybe part 2.

[babygarden]

Here is another thread with a post by Em about Wild Fermenation,
http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10144&highlight=wild+fermentation&page=3

I can't find the other one from before but this and the other one have the info.

[w8in4dave]

you dont need the book there is a website ... Hope I do this right.... www.wildfermentation.com/

[w8in4dave]

www.half.com you can get the book at a great price :)

[babygarden]

w8in4dave, thanks for the sites! Some good prices there, but came up as:
http://books.half.ebay.com

Hope this info helps you Slikchik. Some things might be easier with this method and you don't use sugar in this method either.

[Emerald]

There are a few things that the Wild Fermentation mention that can stand to be repeated here~
1. Start tasting your ferments as soon as the 2nd or 3rd day to see if you like the milder, more crunchy ferment. While I like the 1/2 sours my son likes the full sours and my daughter really likes the 1/4 sours, and my Hubby likes any of them.
2. Things ferment faster the warmer it is and slower the cooler it is-- I have found that the cooler, slower ferment tastes better in the long run, and it seems to hold its nice crunchiness better than the faster ferments, but in the summer when things are just begging to be fermented- they usually get ate up quickly so it is not a big problem.
3. (and this is just my point of view) Some of the things that you try, you might not like as much as you thought you might. It is just a fact of life that we are not used to the strongly fermented flavors as our great Grandparents might have been, and it might take a while to get the ol' palate used to the stronger flavors. _My mother told me that the crock pickles taste just like what my Grandma used to make and that they had a huge barrel at the farm that was always full of pickles and that Grandma used to skim it about once a week, my mom would take those pickles to school to trade for other stuff at lunch, now those had to be great pickles- I just wish that I had asked about some of these recipes before Grandma passed away- I do have all of her cookbooks and her mother's cook books, and a whole box of hand written recipes.. One thing that I noted in my great grandma's written recipes-- they all assume that the person using them knows what a dash, pinch, and what temperature a "medium" oven was!:D
4. You can never use too much GARLIC!!lol We all fight over the leftover garlic at the bottom of the jars! So I just might do a whole crock of just cut in half garlic cloves.
If I think of any more that might be help full I will put them up here.

[w8in4dave]

w8in4dave, thanks for the sites! Some good prices there, but came up as:
http://books.half.ebay.com

Hope this info helps you Slikchik. Some things might be easier with this method and you don't use sugar in this method either.

Yea I guess it does.. well im not good at the linky dink thingy .. just half dot com lol