fertilizer

[gbheath]

Fertilizer baffles me; particularly organic fertilizing. It seems to not be as economical--or cheap--and the options are not as readily available. I'm just trying to figure it all out as I'd love to improve my property soil naturally and to the advantage of all natives without changing their habitat to their detriment. But on to vegetables....

Vegetable beds: I have poor soil on my acreage so I bring in some composted dirt mixture from local nursery for vegetable beds. After adding horse, cattle & sheep manure to one bed (over 4-5 years) and, yes, some chemical fertilizers my soil is 7.1 pH, needing .8# of potassium per 1000 sf (recent soil test). What is a good organic way of adding this potassium per requirements? How does one know when requirements have been met and how is the soil pH maintained? Should I have my soil tested again next year as well?

Another small raised bed was begun this year with the same composted dirt mixture (I assume) from the local nursery. When new plants start out looking good and healthy and then began to turn yellow, what might be wrong? Might the composted mix (and there is no manure in this new mix) be deficient or using up nitrogen as it decomposes? What organics do I add to get my plants (pumpkins & melons) to grow and produce? Is foliar only a weekly fix, or is there a long-term way to keep plants fertilized?

Vetables & fertilizer: how often, how much, what fertilizers, what organics/chemical types ..... as I said, I'm baffled by all this. Am new at vegetables and am learning they like lots of feeding.

[RaspberryFlyer]

I use a product called Plant Tone, which I buy at a local nursery.


You can find it at www.espoma.com


It's a bit pricey, but well worth it. I buy it in 50 pound bags and put it in all my beds.


Like yours, my raised beds are built of Organic Humus (bought at Home Depot in 40 pound bags - this stuff is very much like your mix you got from the nursery), and were topped with some composted horse manure.


I just built the beds last year and this year, but have already grown a summer crop, a fall crop and an early spring crop successfully using this method.

[RaspberryFlyer]

Oh, yeah, I do add in a little extra rock phosphate and greensand because Plant Tone tends to be a bit weak on the phosphorus and potassium for most vegetables.

[lovetogarden]

Seaweed is an excellent source of potassium and trace micronutrients.
It can be purchased on line at http://www.neptunesharvest.com/
It is a bit expensive, but the results are fantastic.
The fish products they also sell provides organic nitrogen.
Besides compost, this is all I use to fertilize with.

[sandysoil]

If you have access to wood ash this is a good source of potassium. For background on this here is a pdf from Oklahoma State:

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-360/F-2238_pod.pdf

[ddeadred]

As an organic farmer, I find that fish emulsion is the best fertilizer known to man. (Yes, it does resurrect the dead plants that I have had from time to time--I'm not kidding!) The most economical way I found to purchase this fertilizer is through Jung Seed. (jungseed.com) The last gallon I purchased was $29.95. Last year, a quart lasted the entire summer so I suspect the gallon with last well through the year and into the next.

I admit, I have wonderfully fertile land as it was formerly a clover field. But, I have honestly used fish emulsion from Jung (with seaweed extract) to resurrect plants that I did not expect to see living in the morning. The gallon size is really very cheap when you work it all out because you do dilute it. I use 1/8 cup to each gallon of water. Honestly, I am unsure of what the directions say to do, but I find this mixture to work perfectly.

I do only plant heritage seeds which I find are much more hardy and, of course, there is the seed saving factor which saves more money.

I wish you luck and welcome questions via email.

[PhilosopherStorm]

I too have terrible soils that are shallow on top of everything else. As for fertilizers it is only been recently that I have started using them, and only organics when I do use them. I discovered that simply getting good organic matter into the soil did wonders for increasing crop production and reducing plant problems. Adding organic matter is probably the most economical way to get additional nutrients to plants. If you are near the ocean if you can get kelp for mulch or to compost you can get even more benefits from the micronutrients. Collecting this simply costs time.

That said, now that I do use organic fertilizers I get mine from Gardens Alive! and they seem to go a long way for the money, when you buy them on closeout or sale.

[gbheath]

Thank you all for such good advice. I'm researching all websites recommended and getting good info from them too. I have Howard Garrett's book on organic gardening in Texas and am trying to figure out just what I need to do from his recommendations. He has a recipe using molasses, seaweed, apple cider vinegar and Hasta-Gro + compost tea as a foliar feed. I've entertained thoughts of a compost pile and should more seriously pursue creating one. I do appreciate all of your suggestions and I learn from every one. Thank you all.

[ginny]

I have found that bone meal is a good source of potassium. And epsom salts (magnisium sulfate) is great for all kinds of vegetables. It has all kind of trace elements in it and of course, magnisium. A little bit of a warning---wood ashes, although a good source of potassium, can make your soil more alkaline and since yours already has a ph of 7.1, you do not need to make it more alkaline. And be especially sure that the composted material you put on your garden is well composted or it could sap the nitrogen from your soil as it continues to compost. Hope this helps a little.

[gbheath]

Thanks for the ashes warning and the reminder of my pH. I have heard that a little wood ash goes a long way. I did put Epsom salt in the holes with my tomatoes when I planted 5-6 weeks ago and also Osmacote for veggies. They look good and are producing fairly well.

[gbheath]

ddeadred: I would love to plant heritage seeds, but we've been warned here in Central Texas that they just will not withstand our climate. (This I was told in the veggie seminar that I attended and taught by a local extension agent.) The bugs and diseases and our extreme heat usually do them in. Our tomato growing season is quite short because our nights get too warm for blooms to set. Gardening can be a challenge here, but I suppose it is anywhere. Isn't it fun!

[elentari8]

ddeadred: I would love to plant heritage seeds, but we've been warned here in Central Texas that they just will not withstand our climate. (This I was told in the veggie seminar that I attended and taught by a local extension agent.) The bugs and diseases and our extreme heat usually do them in. Our tomato growing season is quite short because our nights get too warm for blooms to set. Gardening can be a challenge here, but I suppose it is anywhere. Isn't it fun!

We've been growing heirloom tomatoes for years in central texas and costal texas without problems (other then the heat stopping the bloom...but they pick back up as it starts to go from hot to simply warm and often continue through inot the next year when we pull them out because we have new tomatoes we want to try!) So go ahead and give it a try. It has been my experience that most bug and disease problems are the result of unhealthy plants which are the result of unhealthy soil. I grew great tomatoes up on a windy hill in san antonio and hardly watered them. However, I did have a foot of mulch (literally 12")...leaves, grass clipings, and newspaper...and when I did water, I watered deeply. In fact, I just pulled my first red tomato off the vine yesterday...it was great!

[Nora]

Besides home-made compost, the only fertilizer I use is. . . human urine, which is sterile & contains by dry weight: 15-19% nitrogen, 2.5-5 % phosphorus, 3-4.5 % potassium, & 4.5 - 6% calcium. I learned about it through 2 books: "Solviva" by Anna Edey, and "Liquid Gold" by Carol Steinfeld. Last year I tried it for the first time on forlorn sale pepper plant, and instead of getting my usual single pepper, got 10 from that one plant before frost. My bok choi, leeks and carrots also loved it. I dilute it 10 to one with my well water, and apply it to the ground around the growing plant.

This year I'm going to try it on my heirlooms and see ow they respond.

[Jodi]

gbheath. . .where do you live?
heritage/heirloom seeds come from all over the world! There are some from Africa and Thailand, Mexico. I beleive that the agent just hasn't grown any themself and just doesn't know; some find it easier just to do what they have been doing since that is what they know and recommend. There is even a place in AZ. . .name slipped my mind at the moment. . .that grows seeds and sells seeds too. Of course a little experimentation might have to come in order find what would do well.

So please give heirloom seeds a place. . .you won't be disappointed!
Just look for those types of plants that have information about your climate type. Most people would consider where I live a long growing season. . .however, we too get too hot in summer for the fruit to set on the tomatoes and peppers. But I find that is helpful. Not all fruit come at once and I can have these coming at several times through out early summer to late fall. With a little TLC I have had some tomato plants produce early summer to mid-summer when it gets too hot. . .then keep alive with watering and fertilizing and then a second crop late fall! Yum! and worth the effort.

[Jodi]

I'm wondering what else could be used instead of bone meal to get the same desired results. With all the disease, etc. I just cannot bring myself to using the stuff!
Thanks.

[lovetogarden]

Bone meal is used to raise phosphate levels. Rock phosphate and other rock dusts do the same. Bone meal has lower concentrations of nitrogen and potassium.


Toi raise potassium use-seaweed, ash,greensand.
Organic products to raise nitrogen- blood meal, green manure, cottonseed meal ,corn gluten, alfalfa, grass clippings(fresh)

Compost helps raise all nutrients.

As for pH. The more organic matter added to to soil, helps make the soil more hospitable for plants and less emphasis needs to be place on PH.

[drobinson]

Probably the most common mistake we all make in applying soil fertilizers (amendments), is in putting on too much of the strong stuff. With some, like good compost, and fish emulsion, it is hard to over do. But, with wood ashes, and all commercial fertilizers, a little goes a looong way. I don't use them anymore. Some years ago I put on too much wood ashes on part of my garden, and it still tests very high in potash and lacking in nitrogen. My own practice with my soil, which tends to be on the acidic side, is to add a bit of lime, and test the Ph levels often. I also grow peas as a green manure crop in each plot after the spring garden is over (as a legume, peas add nitrogen to the soil) and till the peas under in the fall. Then I plant red clover in October, where the peas were, which will winter over here and make lots of green manure to till under the next spring. Red clover also adds nitrogen, tilth, plus lots of other good nutrients. Best advice, know your soil, go slow with amendments until you know what happens, and avoid all commercial petro based fertilizers. They are quick fixes, but act like narcotics to the soil. When spent, they leave the soil worse than before. Good soil is alive - full of earth worms and micro-organisms, and resilient to changes in growing seasons and water supply.
You might like to check out the web site Acres USA. It is organic based and has very good articles on soils, amendments, water, marketing your produce, etc.

[ceresone]

Have you tried the garden Web Forumns, esp, "soil, compost and mulch? very informative.

[lextra]

Another website with loads of information on soil and composting is ATTRA.com

[lextra]

sorry that should have been ATTRA.ncat.org. Must be time for me to go to bed!

[BlackbearryGardens]

My grandma always used banana peels to raise potassium levels. Some friends of mine put one banana peel under each tomato plant they plant. I prefer this over bone meal myself. I've always used them around my rose bush and have beautiful roses every year and never apply any other fertilizer to them.

[Pharmerphil]

check out the gardening section on the link in my signature

[mrtomatoexpres]

hi i use earthjuice its great earthjuice.com i use composttea and when i boil veggies i let the water cool down and put it on my plants :D :rolleyes: :cool:

[cecropia]

Fish oil emulsion ais a favorite of mine. I've found a great way to apply it is to use a Miracle Grow type applicator. Just fill the container with well shaken FOE and spray away - applies about a tablespoon/gallon. Great way to "side dress" plants or foliar spray.

[notherdigger]

I haven't got down the process with the seaweed and fish emulsion but I know they are excellent and I need to use them but am often short on money for enough of them. However, one thing I do religiously is grind up dead leaves with the mower and mix them into my garden. I know that it is supposed to take nitrogen from the soil the first year but after that it is on its way and makes the ground soft and fluffy in a hurry. Fortunately for me my lawn jobs are now giving me plenty of leaves for now.
But I, like you, am still learning and growing with the info in forums such as this one. I just keep soaking up all the knowledge and see how much I can retain.

[johno]

You pretty much already have this information, but here's my experience...

A few years back, I had my soil tested and the results showed a need for N and K in fairly large amounts. I tried more wood ashes than usual for the K and ended up with alkaline soil (N is easy to supply,) which I then corrected with large amounts of peat moss and oak leaves. I thought about greensand, but decided to try kelp meal instead. My local feed dealer ordered a fifty pound bag for me - I think it was about $ 17.00 - and WOW, what results! That bag lasted for three years, and including my landscape plants, the area it covered was pretty large (my yard is two acres, including the garden...) Even though the actual amount of N and K in kelp meal is relatively low, a little dab will do ya'! I applied about two cups per hundred square feet. Kelp meal contains all the amino acids a plant needs plus several that humans need and plants don't. This is probably why it works so well.

[GreenZone]

How about alfalfa pellets....has anyone tried them as a major soil amendment? My garlic hasn't gone in yet and it's getting late. The manure I thought I'd have hasn't materialized. I don't have a pickup truck currently.....

I'm thinking alfalfa pellets....clean, not real expensive, by all accounts a little more "organic" than cottonseed meal due to pesticide residues on the latter.

So, any advice??

Randel

[johno]

Rabbit food is basically alfalfa pellets; I'm not sure which is cheaper...

Alfalfa as a fertilizer has a great advantage over the others, in addition to lots of nitrogen it contains natural plant growth hormones. I use rabbit manure, hoping that some of the alfalfa's benefits are still present - if they are not, there is still some uneaten rabbit food dropped beneath the cages and mixed with the manure... Regular applications of rabbit manure as a mulch (also stops weeds...) have been most beneficial to my production. As for using straight pellets for fertilizer, I would recommend composting them first most of the time, although at this time of year the pellets will have a few months to decompose. The pellets get moldy and take awhile to decompose if scattered on the surface...


The first post mentioned bone meal as a source of potassium. Just for the record, bone meal is a source of phosphorus and some nitrogen, no potassium to speak of.

[Cliff Timmons]

I just dusted my garden with manure from the chicken coop.
I'll let it cook all winter and should do allright by spring.

[Gary]

The articles on these links may give you the information you want in using Alfalfa Meal or Pellets.
Gary/Louisville


Alfalfa Tea is a natural and inexpensive fertilizer. Alfalfa pellets and meal are available from garden and feed supply stores in 50 lb. bags. Get together with your neighbors to share the cost (and transportation) of a bag or two. Pellets are easier to handle, but I feel that the meal makes a better fertilizer.
http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/peninsular/tea.html


Soil Health
http://www.ofts.com/bill/soil_health.html


Alfalfa pellets for leaf-based compost bins
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/market-farming/2005-May/020539.html