Burpee Now "Possessed By MonSatan"

[winter_unfazed]

A recent merger now announced says that W.Atlee Burpee & Co. Seeds has accepted a deal to be bought out by Seminis. This will mean that from the beginning of 2007 onward, Burpee will be operated as a subsidiary of Monsanto (a.k.a. Monsatan) Co., which has already bought out Seminis. Seminis and Burpee were the two largest American seed companies not affiliated with Monsatan until both were recently bought out by the multi-billion-dollar corporation.
Burpee & Co. was started in 1876 when 18-year-old Washington Atlee Burpee started a small seed business with the help of his mother. The business took off like a space shuttle, and supplied money to buy a second seed-growing farm in California (in addition to the Burpee's famous Fordhook farm in Pennsylvania). They also built "The House" at Fordhook (which looks simply like a huge farmhouse but is a mansion inside), and converted the old family farmhouse to a seed-cleaning facility.
Behind the scenes, W.A. Burpee was an alcoholic. His drinking led to his untimely death in 1915, at the age of 49. His son David Burpee, aged 22, left Cornell University to take up the reins of the company.
David Burpee became the P.T. Barnum of the seed business, famous for his use of bells-and-whistles, smoke-and-mirrors advertising hype. He made hybridization mainstream in the seed industry, and helped develop chromosomal modification, a predecessor technology to genetic engineering.
In 1991 Hall Co. bought out Burpee seeds. The Hall leadership conflicted often with Jonathan Burpee (heir to the company fortune), so they fired him in 1993 and took away the money that he would have received after retirement. Burpee & Co. began to use Fordhook less for trials, and the California farm more.
It is unknown as of yet what the Monsanto/Seminis buyout will do to Burpee Seeds.

[Lavandula Girl]

It is unknown as of yet what the Monsanto/Seminis buyout will do to Burpee Seeds.
Oh, now.... is it really unknown? :eek:

[CRAZY1]

Well start with Hybrid Heirlooms. That's what the catalogue says folks. This news was published about 6 mos ago. This is also a very bad thing, Monsanto will soon control more than 70% of the seed market.

Kinda makes ya appreciate seed saving a bit more.

[werecat]

Hey Jere, Tell me you wont ever fall prey to this insanity... Please. I have to have at least one place to purchase the seeds it just isn't possible for me to save...

[Eric]

Not to slight Jere or anything, but while he might answer that to the negative, you can't really answer a question like that until you look at a buyout offer and reject it. heh

But I doubt small companies like that are on the radar yet. Especially since the bulk of the "product" in his case and most any heirloom seed company is cheaply obtained and then legally exploitable. If Monsanto wanted to destroy heirlooms, they would buy them from any available source (if they don't already posses them thru Burpee or Seminis) and then sell them thru their large channels like Burpee.

[ceresone]

Guess this makes it more important that ever to buy from the small family-owned seed companies--and save your own seed. but the latter makes a large problem for me-- i like to grow quite a few heirloom varities each year-so i know the seeds wont grow true-- only occasionaly am i able to isolate one.

[johno]

There are techniques for saving pure seed even when you have several varieties in close proximity, such as caging or bagging. Suzanne Ashworth's Seed To Seed should be on everyone's reading list if you are interested in this cause.

[JereGettle]

This is quite a peice of news..... wow, the worlds largest seed/chemical company owns the worlds largest vegetable seed producers and now owns the worlds largest retail seed company!

Well, I guess they plan on taking over...

[winter_unfazed]

Just as there is an existing Safe Seed Pledge in which companies pledge that they will not sell genetically engineered seeds, it seems that there should also be an extra section added to that pledge, in which companies promise that they will not accept buyout offers from companies that do.

[winter_unfazed]

Guess this makes it more important that ever to buy from the small family-owned seed companies--and save your own seed. but the latter makes a large problem for me-- i like to grow quite a few heirloom varities each year-so i know the seeds wont grow true-- only occasionaly am i able to isolate one.

I usually try to cross varieties on purpose, to get more genetic diversity in next year's crop. Who knows, you might discover a new variety!

[D'Butterfly]

Ahh, MonSantanO -- Producers of "RoundUp", engineers of "RoundUp Ready" crop seeds, makers of Tamoxifen (sp?) and largest corporate sponsors of the "Race for the Cure" breast cancer research foundation. First, they cause the cancer (with RoundUp); then, they treat the cancer (with Tamoxifen); finally, they try to make themselves feel better by contributing to the people trying to stop the cancer. Aren't they just the best?

peace, Diedra

[winter_unfazed]

They also produce NutraSweet (aspartame), which may be carcinogenic as well.

[Gregor]

When crazy told me, a few months ago, that Monsanto had bought Burpee, I immediatly canceled my email subscription to the burpee emails. I will not deal with the corporations that push pescides and non organic methods. This is just one more reason that we need to save the seeds, from our yearly harvests, or only purchase from family owned business's that have not been corrupted by the big corporations.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[I8nt2lateihope7]

It's sad that there people who only care about money. Don't they eat food like the rest of us? What are some of the small seed co. I need to buy from them.

[I8nt2lateihope7]

It's sad that there are people who only care about money. Don't they eat food like the rest of us? What are some of the small seed co. I need to buy from them. Please I am new at this, but very interested.

[Cliff Timmons]

Gosh, I feel so cheap and dirty.

I've bought from Burpee and used Roundup.

[johno]

Me too, Cliff. But I won't anymore.

[Cliff Timmons]

Yeah, I'll buy all seeds from Gere.
I'll use old tractor oil to kill the weeds. <grin>

JUST KIDDIN!

[redbrick]

Which part ya kidding about, Cliff, usin' drain oil, or buyin' seed from Jere?

[Cliff Timmons]

You're tryin' to get me killed Andy!!
<grin>

[mrtomatoexpres]

i will call burpe and tell them do not send me your catalog anymore:mad:

[Sandbar]

You're tryin' to get me killed Andy!!
<grin>Or, banned from the forum! :eek:

[Sandbar]

Yeah, I'm done buying from Burpee, too, Charlie.

[Cliff Timmons]

Like I need help getting into trouble. <grin>

[Sandbar]

Like we all didn't already know that. <bigger grin>

[chubbyduckie]

I'm not buying from Burpee anymore, either. There was one tomato they had that I liked, but I'll just buy from Jere, now.

[G. Gordon Gumbo]

But wouldn't it make more sense to find out what varieties are produced by subsidiaries of Monsanto, and then not buy any of those varieties regardless of from which companies peddle them ... that would include all the little seed vendors that repackage Peto seeds, etc. right?

And is it just Monsanto that's the "Evil One?" How about the other international conglomerates involved in chemical, GM, drugs, etc. and own the various seed vendors like American Seed, Northrup King, Plantation Products, and the other various vendors who package the vast majority of seeds sold in big box stores like Wal*Mart, K-Mart, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. as well as smaller regional farm supply and hardware stores? Aren't they in the same game as Monsanto?

If you're gonna commit to a principle ... commit all the way ... otherwise it's really just a silly little symbolic exercize.

GGG

[Sandbar]

GGG, you're right, of course. This whole GMO mess simply underscores the need to maintain our heirloom strains. I can't believe I'm saying this because, just a few years ago, my impression of the anti-GMO group was that they were a bunch of corn-flakes ... well, maybe they have different priorities than I do, but they are spot-on regarding the dangers (known and potential) of relying upon GMO seed-lines.

Makes me wonder what I can to to help? I don't have money ... :)

[G. Gordon Gumbo]

Sandbar,

Some GM may benefit humanity. But most of it really is Frankenstein stuff.

Personally, I think improvements should be made the "traditional" way by crossing same or like species to make genetic improvements, then select out open pollinated cultivars over time.

You can only do what you think is right ... regardless of money or no money. Keep the faith!

GGG

[bhpigeon2]

Proven simple plan:

1. Boycott Burpee

2. Assure no profit

3. Force discontinuance of varieties for lack of interest

4. Blame Monsanto

bhp2

[CRAZY1]

Monsanto owns the traits to more than 90% of the worlds GM seeds. They are only shadowed by Syngenta and Dupont. These are all companies that support the GMO movements. If you do a search for seed companies owned by Monsanto you will be amazed at the amount of companies they own or subsidize. They are getting to the point of Microsoft before they were forced to break up their hold on the market. I don't belve this will happen with Monsanto though. Reason being is they also are the largest chemical and fertilizer supplier in the world. So all the seeds have to be compatable with their chemicals. If you subscribe to any of the major farm/agricultural mags then you've read about the companies they are gobbleing up each month. The only way to be sure the seeds you get are not GMOs is to find reputable seed producers of heirloom and OP seeds. There are a few out there. Be sure they are Certified Naturally Grown or in the National Organics Program. These are farms that are inspected 2x a year and kicked out if they employ GMOs or chemicals.
In reading the Wall Street Journal you will find an awsome amount of info on the buisness dealings of Monsanto. Then you will realize how much controll we DON'T have over this situation. Dont forget tey lobby their way into the pockets of goverment, and just straight out stomp on the little guys so they colapse or sell out. It is a very sad situation, but by saveing our seeds and shareing the knowedge and info we have with others, the Heirlooms and OP seeds do stand a chance.

[G. Gordon Gumbo]

Successive mergers between various seed companies have produced six multinationals responsible for all the GM varieties patented so far.

• Syngenta: Sandoz, Novartis Seeds, Ciba-Geigy, Northrup King, Rogers, Rogers NK, Zeneca, Hilleshog, Wilson Genetics.

• Aventis: AgrEvo, Hoechst-Roussel, Agritope, Exelixis, Limagrain, PGS, Plant Genetics, Plant Genetic Systems, Harris Moran, Rhone-Poulenc.

• Monsanto: Calgene, Holdens, DeKalb, Asgrow, Upjohn, Agracetus.

• DuPont: Du Pont, Pioneer Successive

• Dow: Agrigenetics, Mycogen, Biosource

• BASF: American Cyanamid, ExSeed Genetics, Rohm and Haas" Source

Northrup King is in the Syngenta group along with the following seed and agricultural products producers: Tomono Agrica (Japan), Agra (Italy), Agrosem (France), Koipesol Semillas (Spain), Crop protection business of Oriental Chemical Industries (South Korea), Sturdy Grow Hybrids (United States), Wilson Seeds (United States), Agritrading (Italy), American Sunmelon (United States), Ishirara Sangyo Kaisha Ltd. (Japan), Mogen (Netherlands), New Farm Crops (United Kingdom), Hilleshog NK (Sweden), Stauffer Chemical BV (Netherlands), Sluis & Grut (Netherlands), Rogers (United States), Funk Seeds International (United States).

Also, I believe that Northrup King was owned recently by Plantation Products who also owns American Seed Co., so maybe when NK was taken into the Sygenta group, American and Plantation went with NK ... however, as companies are bought and sold everyday by these huge conglomerates, who knows, Plantation/American may now be owned by some other international conglomerate who may or may not be involved in GMOs.

I mention Northrup King again, because along with Burpee, Plantation, and American Seed, NK is one of those who packages tons of garden seed for sale in those stand-up displays at Wal*Mart, Lowes, Home Depot, Rural King, and farm and tractor supply type stores all over the U.S.

Burpee and NK do custom packing for Wal*Mart and Lowes. In fact, one of the better Brandywine (pink, potato leaf type) tomatoes is packaged with a Wal*Mart logo by Northrup King. I guess I'm sayin' basically ... a whole bunch of ordinary home gardening folks are getting ALL their seeds from the GM goons ... so we got a lot of preachin' to do, friends.

GGG

[bhpigeon2]

Since the sale of Burpee to Monsanto via Seminis took place in January 2005, a month short of 2 years ago, why is the reporting of it here suddenly big news now? Best answer, I assume, would be that this forum didn't exist then. Another answer may be that any release was postponed to coincide with the peak sales period of mail order seed companies. Burpee has always been a reputable company no matter who was running the operation. Studying their 2007 offerings, there doesn't seem to be anything to cause panic in the barnyard.

bhp2

[Chickens-on-Mars]

Hi bhp2,
This information is old to some yet very new to the first time gardener.

"Studying their 2007 offerings, there doesn't seem to be anything to cause panic in the barnyard."

This may be so, but our money will go to support one of the "six multinationals responsible for all the GM varieties patented so far".
Frankly, I would toss my money in the bog before knowingly buying even a paperclip from such short sighted businesses.

What kind of Pigeons do you have? I currently have a pair of Syrian Coop Tumblers and a pair of Helmets.
Brian

[bunkie]

i'm new here to the forum today and have been reading the posts here and wanted to share something else that Burpee does with its seeds.

my sister has worked several years for burpee seeds and does their seed racks at K Mart in western washington state. she sent me an email last July saying that burpee has ordered her to destroy any seeds that aren't sold at the end of the season EACH year from now on. she has been instructed to wet the unsold seed packets down and throw them in the dumpster. she tried to fight them to no avail.

i and several others wrote the local papers and the company letters like this one:

Subject: Martha's seed destruction at KMart

Good day...

It has come to my attention that KMarts across the country require that all Martha Stewart seeds (flowers, herbs and vegetables) be destroyed IN STORE, and I quote, "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ARE YOU TO REMOVE SEED FROM THE STORE.* If they don't have a compactor, put the seed in a trash bag and pour water or spray paint over it."

I cannot seem to justify this waste.* I am a merchandiser for Burpee Seeds (and I realize I might loose my job over this email) but I feel the need to address this.* Many of my accounts donate the leftover seed to missions in Third World Countries...some are donated to the Master Gardener Project...some are donated to community garden projects....except for KMart, and with all the KMarts in the country, there are an awful lot of seeds going to trash compactors (or spray paint!) that could be growing food and beautiful flowers, and Lord knows, in this world, we can use all the beauty possible!

KMart is not charged for the unsold seeds, so there is no money loss for that corporation.

Imagine the wonderful press KMart and Martha Stewart would get if ALL those millions of viable seed packets were donated to a cause.... It's a win-win situation if that were to happen.* As it stands now, it's just plain wasteful and the saddest display of generosity that I have ever witnessed.

If there is a good reason to destroy all the seeds, please let me know.

I, personally, will be at the KMart in Chehalis, Washington on Monday afternoon, and unless you do something quickly, I will have to destroy millions of seeds that could feed people, teach people how to grow their own food, and bring incredible beauty with the power of flowers.

Please change your policy....please?

this was burpee's response...

Garden Products Company 300 Park Avenue Warminster, PA **18974

August 2, 2005

Dear S:

Thank you for writing and expressing your concern over the disposal of the Martha Stewart Everyday brand seed packets in the Kmart stores. I will be happy to respond to the emails that you have sent to Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia. Your correspondence was forwarded to me, since the end of season procedures for the program are determined by Burpee and not by Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia or by Kmart. Ideally, the donation of unsold seed packets to the needy both here and abroad would be a solution that we believe everyone would prefer. Unfortunately, the practicality of doing that with packet seed becomes extremely challenging. Please allow me to explain.

I think that it is admirable that you would like to help those less fortunate than we are; however, donating seed packets is relatively useless to victims of famine, flood and other calamities. There are several reasons for this. For example, refugee camps do not have the room to plant and grow packet seed; the packets are in English and thus very difficult for people in developing nations who do not read English to follow (there have been reports of people in refugee camps having eaten the seeds and becoming ill). Additionally, the repackaging, handling, sorting and shipping of packet seeds is extremely inefficient and costly to social service agencies, and much of the seed is wasted. It becomes necessary to ensure that appropriate varieties are sent for each country and region, and that the packets are subjected to proper conditions and planting schedules. Because of these challenges much of the seed is wasted.

I think that it is important to note that Burpee makes substantial monetary contributions to developing nations. In addition Burpee also donates bulk seed (single variety seeds in large sacks) on an annual basis.

For the above reasons Burpee tends to use seed as a relief only when conditions are such that bulk seed can be targeted to specific needs at specific times. We work through organizations such as CARE to insure that the seed is placed appropriately based on need and to avoid fraud. For example, this past year Burpee sent over 1400 lbs of vegetable seed to Iraq to support the rebuilding of that country. I am forwarding a copy of an article in the Chicago Tribune regarding this donation. Other donations in the past have included shipments to Rwanda, Somalia and Haiti.

The disposal of the seed packaged under the Martha Stewart Everyday brand is an understanding between Burpee and the Kmart Corporation whereby Burpee has the sole discretion for the disposition of this product in Kmart stores. As you may know the seeds are a live good and are stamped with the date of the retail year. The packets cannot be sold after the year stamped on the packet because, in time, the germination rate of seeds begins to decline. If subjected to adverse conditions the germination rate can suffer at an increased rate. Moreover, in order to retain control over the distribution of the product and how it is handled, we cannot allow such seed packets to leave the store for destruction. This is why we dispose of carry-over seed at the end of the season in the Kmart stores.

It is our hope that this information may help provide a better understanding of the end of season processing that we do. If you need further discussion, please feel free to contact me at 215- 674-4900 ext. 1269.

Thank you.

Rick Troja Director of Sales Burpee Garden Products

really sad excuse for a company with such a large outlet. peace, bunkie.**

[bhpigeon2]

But, at the same time, if those seeds DO get out of the stores, and DO NOT get into the intended hands, the very law of seed expiration dates, that the vast majority of all gardeners wanted, becomes the one thing that prevents distribution without a waiver due to our willingness to bring suits. Nothing physical would prevent someone from turning around and illegally selling them and/or changing the expiration date. And that was explained, in so many words, in that letter. We gardeners asked for that for years and finally got it made into law. Now we have to live with the results.

bhp2

[walleye]

Guess I just wasn't paying attention, as this is the first I have read about it. I knew that several others had been bought up, and I knew that some of the catalogs heavy into organics (Johnny's for one) had been buying from Seminis and have since switched away from that.

Reading Mother Earth News today, I noted a Burpee ad on the inside front cover. Either M.E.N. wasn't paying attention either, or their advertising guidelines have slipped. I'm gonna e-mail them to find out which.

I had moved away from Burpee several years ago because, while some of their hybrids grew wonderfully for me, I didn't like getting hooked on a variety that could not be bought elsewhere. Several times a favorite variety with them was discontinued and I could not get it anywhere else. Kind of pushed me down the path of heirlooms, well before I was even aware of the concept. Burpee has been doing more and more of the "exclusive hybrid" thing lately, judging by their catalog. I can easily fathom how they might add the terminator genes to those and even try to use the term "heirloom hybrid".

[bhpigeon2]

Guess I just wasn't paying attention, as this is the first I have read about it. I knew that several others had been bought up, and I knew that some of the catalogs heavy into organics (Johnny's for one) had been buying from Seminis and have since switched away from that.
Johnny's is a huge supplier of hybrid seeds. For example, one can buy F1 cabbage seeds in quantities to 100,000. F1 tomatoes may be purchased in lots up to 25,000. They are the exclusive North American wholesale outlet for many F1 varieties.

Burpee has been doing more and more of the "exclusive hybrid" thing lately, judging by their catalog. I can easily fathom how they might add the terminator genes to those and even try to use the term "heirloom hybrid".
Burpee does not sell at wholesale quantities.

bhp2

[winter_unfazed]

I still haven't decided whether or not Jonhhy's is worth buying from; they do have a lot of hybrids (I don't grow those) but do they get seeds from the Monsanto/Monsatan cartel?

[Sandbar]

Winter, Johnny's has a safe seed pledge (only non-GMO seed sold), however, I don't know if they buy any seed from the GMO companies.

I have purchased seed and tools from Johnny's and have found them to be a very nice company. There is one hybrid tomato they sell that I am trying this year (Buffalo) and the hybrid Copra onion. Am trying both only because Eliot Coleman lists these on his favorites list.

[redbrick]

I guess I'm just becoming an Heirloom Snob. Any more, I'm only considering buying from B.C., S.S.E., and other "niche" sources who deal exclusively in heirlooms. It's just easier on my brain that way!

[walleye]

bhpigeon2:

Sorry, my intent was not to start a hybrid vs. heirloom debate. I grow 80% heirlooms. Neither was it my intent to make my post an advertisement for any one particular seed vendor. Your point is well-taken however. Most of Johnny's hybrids are available from several vendors, but those vendors probably can only get their seeds from Johnny's.

My point was that Burpee has moved recently toward more and more exclusive hybrids. Now with Monsanto in control, a company with a track record of adding Terminator genes, suing farmers whose fields accidentally get cross polinated, developing seeds that work only with other Monsanto chemicals, what next? They now have a ready-made network for distributing their exclusive products directly into the home vegetable gardens of America. Burpee may not sell wholesale (yet), but the total volume of retail seed pack sales is significant -- maybe on par with wholesale accounts?

And while "panic in the barnyard" might not apply, there darn sure should be a high degree of concern over these events.

[Eric]

But, at the same time, if those seeds DO get out of the stores, and DO NOT get into the intended hands, the very law of seed expiration dates, that the vast majority of all gardeners wanted, becomes the one thing that prevents distribution without a waiver due to our willingness to bring suits.

I'm sure the vast majority of gardeners wanted laws governing germination rates. They wrote their local lawmakers in large hordes to get attention to this subject and now we see a lot of laws forcing seed companies to register and have their seeds tested by impartial bodies.
That doesn't even sound remotely plausible. Its *always* the case that laws of this nature are pushing in by large interests in order to restrict or prevent small interests.

If year old Burpee seeds got out and resold it still wouldn't require a genius to read a seed packet and see the dates. If you are suggesting some other more nefarious criminal activities like repackaging, why would Burpee be responsible?


The risk of litigation is a classic dodge, and is generally smokescreen bulls**t. The large interests that push their agendas in legislation have legal departments to fend off litigation. Don't be fooled, seed laws are just a way to artificially raise the cost of entry for small buisness. I intend to ignore such nonsense and call it civil disobedience.



Its a good thing for gov't to get involved and protect people from dangerous or unsafe products but I don't feel the need for them to protect me from a seed that may not sprout.



P.S. No offense but you sound like a shill, what do you do for a living?

[johno]

Eric, what's a shill?

[Sandbar]

Eric, what's a shill?shill (shil) Slang. n. 1. One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

Eric, I, for one, would appreciate it if you would not use profane language in your posts.

Thanks.

[bhpigeon2]

Why is that so many here are afraid of or deny the facts? This forum was not started up based on BS. Anyone doubting the seed package dating hasn't been around gardening very long. Amazing how those with the very source of such answers at their fingertips are the least willing to look for them. As soon as box stores came into being, there were accusations of them storing seed from one year to the next and selling them as fresh. Crappy germination and the seed companies got blamned for it. There were even unsubstantiated claims that date labels were being put over date labels and so on. It WAS the gardeners who were complaining. Ask the owner of Baker Creek if they have to date the packages and if they can get away with selling seeds dated for 2006 next year. Same rule applies to the little guys as does the biggest seed supplier. It's a no brainer!

bhp2

[GreenZone]

Nope we can't sell last year's packages of seed...not at any price, not even at a penny a pack. We can give them away or destroy them. And large seed lots that are around for awhile must be tested for germination every ten months. At Baker Creek all this is overseen by yours truly.

Randel

[G. Gordon Gumbo]

Randel,

Out of curiousity (I'm a student of regulations), are you bound to your particular seed testing and packaging procedures by state or federal regulations ... or both?

And do you generally try to meet or exceed the minimum regulations?

Bill

[bunkie]

i posted here yestrday, but it disappeared?!

anyway, i tend to agree with eric. all these laws/regulations/lobbyists, etc... make it more difficult for the small businesses and small farms. they add to the farmer/gardeners' costs.

as far as selling 'fresh' seed, in my many years of gardening, i haven't seen the call from gardeners for laws to be made for bad germination, mislabeling of seed dates, etc... and i read a lot. i don't know how i could've missed that?!

to me the solution to poor germination is to complain to the seed company you get your seeds from. most of them will usually replace the seed, our give you credit, or even give you your money back. what's wrong with that scenerio? one year i had no seeds greminate from BC (a pepper seed). i phoned them and told them what happened, and they sent me a new packet of the seeds that worked. i've experienced this with other companies too that have been named on this forum. simple. no lobbying. no government. peace, bunkie.

[Dug n Dirt]

I have just read all the posts on this thread and WAS thinking of buying a couple of varieties from Burpee, but after learning that they are a Monsatan child, I am having very strong second thoughts.
I may be new at all the heirloom planting, but I do remember the fruits and veggies my dad and grandparents grew in the '60s & "70s, and they NEVER had to worry this much about GM seeds and plants. (And they grew some of the most tasty foods I have ever eaten.)
To me, tampering with genetics, especially in our food supply is begging for trouble!
I'm with you guys. I think I'll stick with BC, SSE, and Heirloom Acres seeds for my growing and eating pleasure.

[theresa]

ok so I bought my seeds last year from wal-mart, farm and fleet. So I suppose they were GMO-seeds. Will that affect the seeds I buy this year from Rareseeds?

[redbrick]

As long as you don't plant seeds saved from last year or new seeds from those sources, they shouldn't effect this year's crops. Very probably, they themselves weren't GMO, although, I suppose there's always the chance. I think you'll find that the biggest concern with who owns what (monsanto, etc.) is more in where the money goes and less in what they're trying to sell us (yet). There's another thread, in Heirloom Gardening, that explains my personal take on the matter. As to whether other people agree with it, I won't hazard a guess. The thread's title is (basically) "How evil is Burpee?"

Again, to answer your question, there should be no direct effect on your garden this year or in the future from last year's seed purchases, IMHO

[winter_unfazed]

I didn't know Wal-Mart would selkl GM seeds. If they do they're probably labeled; but I don't know for sure.

[CRAZY1]

I'm not to sure about how many of you realize that all the foods you consume, unless labeled "organic", are GMOs. We farm apox 2600 acres and buy literally tons of seed each year. Now if my dad could go organic he would. But a farm can't exist for 4 to 5 yrs showing no profit. I grow all heirloom and open pollinated seeds in our garden, which is 300 feet away from any commercially farmed field.
Now as to Burpee, how can you sell a hybrid Heirloom? Any answer to this would be appreciated.
I also saw the ad in M.E.N. and canceled my subscription. With the reason being, how can homesteaders save seeds from these hybrids and be self sufficient. Mother is a mag for those trying to get out of the mainstream. And Monsanto is as mainstream as it can be.

[bunkie]

i don't think all foods other than those labeled organic are GMO. many are and are not labeled as such, but not all imo.

Burpee offers some heirloom seeds, and some hybrid seeds, both kinds, just as Johnny's and Territorial and others do. when they start selling GMO seed, as with the GMO food, i suspect they will not have to label it GMO.

we have subscribed to Countryside magazine for several years now. found it in the library and feel it's well worth subscribing to if one can afford it. we think it's better than MEN. somewhere along the line, MEN went too commercial for us.

from what i have read, GMO seeds are not in our mainstream stores now. they are mainly being pushed on the third world countries and in Europe, who is fighting against the intro of them. we have large commercial farms using the see, but i haven't heard of any being sold in seed packets across the board yet.

crazy1, do you worry about drifting seeds being so close to the commercial farm? peace, bunkie.

[Lillian Osborne]

Hybrids, in and of themselves, are not a bad thing. Hybrids occur naturally and spontaneously at times in our gardens, even occasionally becoming stable 'selections' reproducing true from their own seed.

It is what has been done, and is being done, in the name of 'hybrid superiority' that is the crime. Taking the power and possibility of people around the world to contribute to their own care and sustenance out of their hands.

Many fine seed companies do still buy from these monsters, but if they,(the seed company) support the safe seed pledge, they are usually buying from a division that supplies seed especially for home gardeners. They are also engaged in searching for dependable, honorable sources for replacement varieties that will meet the requirements of their customers.

Being a home gardener, wanting clean, safe, untampered with seed and produce for our families is a challenge. One that the various Heirloom Seed suppliers such as Baker Creek, SESE, Seeds of Change, SSE and others have been working for years to address.

Companies such as Nichols, Pintree, Territorial, Fedco, and Johnny's have a hard row to hoe in this environment. They must keep a large enough customer base to stay in business, while trying to eliminate the most offensive sources from their list of suppliers.

We, as gardeners, must not abandon family owned and operated companies who are supporting their own families, and the families of their employees with their businesses.

We can help in several ways.

NEVER buy anything from a company that does not state plainly they have signed The Safe Seed Pledge.

Let our favorite mixed offering companies know we want them to continue their efforts to eliminate the "bad guys" from their suppliers, and that we will continue to support them in their efforts.

And never, under any circumstance buy from a company that will present a pile of infected compost like the letter from Burpee/ Martha Stewart Omnimedia.

There are millions of people in need in THIS country, who DO read and understand the English language, who could put these discarded seeds to use. They do not have to be 'handled' for export.

Yes, the possibility of bootlegging does exist, but given the worldwide income of companies such as this, it is a pinch that would never be felt by any one of them.

It is my humble conviction that the good of local donation of these seeds would far outweigh any possible negative factors.

Lillian

[CRAZY1]

No I don't worry about drifting seeds as the seeds around here are planted not air seeded. But also the CNG and National Organic Counsel consider 300 ft a "safe buffer zone".
Now Europe and China will not import any grains from us, because of the extensive use of GMOs here.
I don't really understand the statement of no GMOs being sold across the board. I consider hybrids GMOs, as well as alot of the new disease resistant strains, but thats just my opinion.
And I agree with you Lillian, the crime is the attempt to make a "superior seed". But as too the Safe Seed Pledge, thats all politics, and I have an opinion about that which I won't post here. As we all know how politicians are.

[Sandbar]

I thought, by definition, that GMO seed were created by genetically splicing the genes of plants that would not normally cross ... i.e. and inter-species cross, say between corn and beans.

Furthermore, I thought most hybrids were created by cross-pollination within the same species.

[CRAZY1]

I could very well be mistaken, wouldn't be the first time. But some GMOs are crossed with animal or human genes. This I know is a fact, some of the rice now has human liver genes in it to make it less susceptible to diseases. And I've read some of the hybrids are were formed by other forms of genetic splicing.
GGG, your input would sure help. You do seem well versed in this area.

[bunkie]

now you've got me curious, too! i thought like sandbar that GMO's were the splicing and dicing of genes such as the peanut gene put in a tomato, etc... with the lack of labeling and all the allergies people and kids ahve today, it is very dangerous, imo. peace, bunkie.

[redbrick]

Oh, there's DEFINITELY trans-kingdom (my word, not official) gene splicing going on right now! Besides pharmaceutical splicing, I know of flounder genetics being spliced into lettuce to increase the frost hardiness! Now, I ask you, Is this really necessary? Supposedly, fireblight "could" be cured by splicing Silkmoth genetics into apple trees as well, but at what cost?

[johno]

The first cross kingdom genetic engineering I ever heard of was in fall of 1987 during Zoology class. I heard then that someone had put the luminescence gene from fireflies (we call them lightning bugs...) into a flower. It didn't flash on and off, but glowed all the time. I was excited about genetic engineering back then. Now, not so much...

[winter_unfazed]

I'm not to sure about how many of you realize that all the foods you consume, unless labeled "organic", are GMOs. We farm apox 2600 acres and buy literally tons of seed each year. Now if my dad could go organic he would. But a farm can't exist for 4 to 5 yrs showing no profit.

First of all, not every crop is GMO, because only certain GM crops have been approved for the food chain. Namely corn, soybeans, canola, papayas, and potatoes. (Tomatoes were formerly GM, but these were taken off the market. Rice and plums have been engineered but have not yet been approved.)

Now as far as farms obtaining profit, how do you think farms profited for hundreds of years before GMOs came along? The farmers who are dependent on GE for the profitability of their farms are probably either not diversified enough, or requiring too much input money.

Diversification provides the farm with more than one source of income/profits. Also, it includes rotation of crops, which reduces the need for pesticide and fertilizer.

Requiring too much input money is a problem of management. For example: spacing too widely requires you to use more land, and therefore more fertilizer, and more fuel for tractors and other machines. Another example of excess input is paying for technology such as GPS and anything computerized.

Growing a regrowable type of seed will also cut back on input expenses. If you have to "buy tons of seed", imagine the savings by not having to buy new seed every year.

[G. Gordon Gumbo]

>>"Growing a regrowable type of seed will also cut back on input expenses. If you have to 'buy tons of seed,' imagine the savings by not having to buy new seed every year."<< J. Goss

Which brings us back to the point of Monsanto suing every breathin' farmer it can on a hint of savin' his or her own seeds from a crop unwittingly cross pollinated by uninivited GE pollen drift.

You don't think they haven't considered the profit potential in seed saving for individual farmers? Ever heard of vertical alignment of subsidiary corporations? What's the one word synonym for that?

G3

[CRAZY1]

Winter_unfazed, my family has been farming for 3 generations in this country. We mostly came from Poland and German farms. So we do know how our ancestors farmed. It's in "Our Blood" so to speak. As to diversifying we also are a cow calf operation with 300 broad cows, mostly Polled Herfords. Do you totally support you family and expenses off the land YOU farm and grow crops on? If you do then you will realize the expense in running an operation of this size or larger.
If not you really have no idea.
Now back to the topic , GGG you speak the truth of the one word for all that..............
And you wouldn't believe what you have to sign to buy seeds.

[Mischka]

Ever heard of vertical alignment of subsidiary corporations? What's the one word synonym for that?

G3

Hmmm.

I'm going to guess that this one word is also the name of a world-famous board game that pays you $200.00 every time you pass "GO"? :cool:

[Rockhound]

"And you wouldn't believe what you have to sign to buy seeds." You don't have to sign anything, you CHOOSE to sign things to buy certain seeds. There is a difference. Yes I know what I'm talking about, lol.

[CRAZY1]

Then you also have to notify the local grain elevator when using those seeds. But if you don't sign, in some cases it makes you look like you're not agreeing to admit growing those seed. And anythng from Monsanto, Cambells, Dairy Land, and many other you have to agree not to save seed from their crops.

[Lavandula Girl]

So, since I know nothing about large scale farming, really, I have a question. How do these huge companies police volunteers? Say, if you agree not to save seed, but for any number of reasons you end up with some extras growing out there in the field. Do they come to your farm regularly, looking for plants that could be from their strains, and doing field DNA samples or something? I've heard a lot about the bullying that goes on, and read accounts, but I haven't seen anything specifically about something like this.

[bunkie]

i'm not sure about the way they're going to 'police' people's properties if they go so far, but here's an article explaining what they're doing in Iraq and other countries to control seed. also, their is some info on the difference between GMO seeds and what has been done in the past as far as developing new varieties of plants/seeds. also, figures on how much GMO is in our food and being planted in US. peace, bunkie

Seeding starvation in Iraq

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=29550&s2=06


In 2004, when L. Paul Bremer III left his position as Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) administrator to "transfer sovereignty," he also left behind 100 deadly orders to govern Iraq. Order 81, which included "Patent, Industrial Design, Integrated Circuits and Plant Variety," prohibited Iraqis from reusing seeds of "new" plant varieties patented under the law. Think about that for a second....

GM (genetically modified) crops here in the corporate-occupied USA include corn, soybeans, potatoes and tomatoes. It’s estimated that 60 percent of our processed food, some 30,000 products, contain genetically modified ingredients. Seventy million acres of our country’s farmland is planted with genetically engineered crops. So, as you shed a tear for Iraq shed one for America and its farmers, who have been bucking the Mon[ster]santo and its clones.

Actually, peasants and farmers crossbred related plants or animals for hundreds of thousands of years. You can lead a horse to a donkey and get a mule, right? But you’ll have a hell of a time (and for good reason) trying to get the horse to mate with an apple tree. So the key word to crossbreeding and pollination is "relatedness." That keeps it real, safe, successful. Beyond that, randomly stripping the elements from a gene and sticking them on a disparate gene or set of genes for "the hell of it," i.e., profit, is likely to give you a Frankenstein fish or a Moreau apple.

What’s more, GM employs "genes from animals, plants, insects, bacteria and viruses and then artificially inserts them into the DNA of food crops." This both "bypasses gradual evolutionary process and actually creates pathways for diseases and genetic weaknesses to cross over to completely unrelated species." This can cause unexpected and even harmful changes in organisms, the humans that consume them and the environment that bears them. Here are some striking examples from psrast.org....more....

[Ohiorganic]

The way farms are policed is Monsanto will spray a field they suspect is round up ready but planted with illegal seed (all soy is open pollinated and self pollinating so it is quite easy to save round up ready soy bean seed, corn is more difficult to save as it will cross with neighboring corn crops but one can also save GMO corn seed as well). if the field is killed off than illegal GMO seed was nit used and the farmer did not break any laws. if the field survives than monsanto will than take further action which includes Monsanto reps coming out and taking tissue samples and doing further spraying as well as looking at any signed contracts, any seed that is still in bins etc. And than they sue the farmer for a couple of million bucks and put the farmer out of business.

I do not believe Monsanto will compensate the farmer for killing their field because Monsanto will not readily admit they tresspassed and sprayed roundup on the crop. But they will not sue the farmer either.

[winter_unfazed]

I wonder if there is some kind of herbicide that ONLY kills GM/Roundup Ready crops?

[redbrick]

Ohiorganic, if that's accurate, then it bears a striking resemblence to the Salem Witchhunt trials! BTW, I'm being serious here, not my usual tongue-in-cheek self. If I remember right, one of the tests for witchhood was throwing the bound suspect into a lake. If the suspect was a witch, she floated to the top, and was then burned at the stake. If the suspect was innocent, she sank and drowned. I guess history really does repeat itself!

[HaRRY]

Just to clarify that this information is false, and seems to be a rapidly spreading internet rumor in the gardening community. Burpee is NOT owned by Monsanto nor has it ever been. Burpee remains an independent privately owned seed and plant purveyor with a proud 131 year history of fulfilling the needs of home gardners across America. Any issues that apply to Monsanto and that are being heartily debated on this board do not apply to Burpee in any way.

[LoreD]

If you would like to be very specific, Burpee has been purchased by Seminis, which was purchased by Monsanto. Monsanto is the parent company of both Burpee and Seminis.

Burpee is not independently or family owned.

LoreD

[Chickens-on-Mars]

Just to clarify that this information is false, and seems to be a rapidly spreading internet rumor in the gardening community. Burpee is NOT owned by Monsanto nor has it ever been. Burpee remains an independent privately owned seed and plant purveyor with a proud 131 year history of fulfilling the needs of home gardners across America. Any issues that apply to Monsanto and that are being heartily debated on this board do not apply to Burpee in any way.

Honey! come quick! Bring the popcorn.

[HaRRY]

Burpee has not been purchased by Seminis either. Burpee is PRIVATELY owned and is not for sale.

[zebraman]

hEY gUYS;This is rather Funny.
http://www.corporatewatchorg.uk/?lid=208

http://www.utopiasprings.com/agupnol.htm Scroll down to 'Search the Whole World and enter Burpee Seed Co.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b337fo427d9.htm

http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues/2_2006.htm#article2

What seems to throw HaRRy and others is the line on the Burpee wesite that states they are "family owned" which is ADVERTISING!If Truth was requirred in advertising Nobody would buy Anything!-

[Ohiorganic]

Harry posted the same thing on my blog http://boulerbelt.blogspot.com/2007/01/say-no-to-burpee-seeds.html#links
as did another person who wrote an article saying burpee is still and independant http://plantsbulbs.suite101.com/blog.cfm/monsanto_seminis_and_burpee

I don't know if I have been invaded by shills or if their information is correct and the Burpee now ownd by Monsanto is false

so confused:eek:

[bhpigeon2]

[QUOTE=Ohiorganic;26102
I don't know if I have been invaded by shills or if their information is correct and the Burpee now ownd by Monsanto is false

so confused:eek:[/QUOTE]

Burpee is not owned by Monsanto. The facts have already been presented here, I believe. Burpee went bankrupt and was purchased by Seminis. Seminis went bankrupt and was bought by Monsanto. Happened 2 years ago, January 2005. "Breaking" story is resurrected on forums every 4 months in order to relieve boredom.

bhp2

[Sandbar]

Burpee is not owned by Monsanto. The facts have already been presented here, I believe. Burpee went bankrupt and was purchased by Seminis. Seminis went bankrupt and was bought by Monsanto. Happened 2 years ago, January 2005. "Breaking" story is resurrected on forums every 4 months in order to relieve boredom.Um, what am I missing ... you contradict yourself. Typo?

[Ohiorganic]

Burpee is not owned by Monsanto. The facts have already been presented here, I believe. Burpee went bankrupt and was purchased by Seminis. Seminis went bankrupt and was bought by Monsanto. Happened 2 years ago, January 2005. "Breaking" story is resurrected on forums every 4 months in order to relieve boredom.

bhp2

bhp2 what you have written is exactly the opposite of what you claim that burpees is nor owned by Monsanto.

If Burpee was bought by Seminis and Seminis was bought by Monsanto than Burpee is now owned by Monsanto because Monsanto owns all of Semenis' holdings and according to you (and many others) that includes Burpee.

This why I am confused-people are saying two things sometimes at once.:confused:

So I guess the real question is Does Geo Ball still own Burpee? I have read several places no he does not and that he sold Burpee to Seminis in 1995.

Oh well, I do not buy seeds from Burpee anyway as I feel their seeds are not the best money can buy and they offer too few heirloom and cert. organic seeds:(

[bhpigeon2]

So I guess the real question is Does Geo Ball still own Burpee? I have read several places no he does not and that he sold Burpee to Seminis in 1995.(

No typo! Chew on this for awhile: www.curevents.com/vb/showpost.php?p=650100&postcount=26

bhp2

[daylilydude]

I edited it because it was unfounded misinformation !

[Sandbar]

That was a link to another forum from a poster *claiming* to work for Burpee. Not worthy of quoting.

No facts ... just opinion.

If what the poster said is true, then Burpee is buying Seminis seed, so your purchases still support Monsanto and it's march toward GMO seed.

So, that's enough of a reason for me to not purchase Burpee seed anymore.

Chew on that for a while. :)

[mrtomatoexpres]

when i calledup the person had no idea about what i was talking about just told her nomore catalogs from burpees

[Liberty_Man]

I edited it because it was unfounded misinformation !

Alrighty then.. let me explain.. i'm just reading up on Monsanto trying to find out why all the "boycott monsanto" tags in peoples bylines. And i see that Jere is really vocal on the subject. I'm not.. i'm just reading and learning. I didn't know that about seminis till the other day and now i believe this is definative that burpees is owned by Monsanto too. And there are some lists of other companies and posts i'd like to check out before i comment on the subject. I will say that i will not buy any more seeds from burpees though.. that's just my decision.

I loved the backstory you had about the company Jefferey.. you do write some great stuff. And i liked that i found another forumn that i knew nothing about till today. I don't know if i like it or not cause i've only read one or two posts over there http://www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3013 And i certainly don't have time to read everything over there right now. I'm still working on this research.

Just so ya all know there are a great many of these posters who left around Jan. or Feb of 2007 for whatever reason. So this isn't current. but then again it's not bickering either.. Well for the most part it's not. It seems to be pretty much of an agreement that monsanto is bad.

Anyways.. i hope you all don't mind me posting to this one. I have my own selfish reasons.. it brings it up where i can find it again and check marks the thread so that i know i've posted in here. That's it. Plain and simple.. i want to read this in more detail later.:confused:

[older than dirt]

This is quite a peice of news..... wow, the worlds largest seed/chemical company owns the worlds largest vegetable seed producers and now owns the worlds largest retail seed company!

Well, I guess they plan on taking over...


Yes the plan is now out in the open for all to see.
Ive never been a monsanto basher but this buy out changed that . For the first time i'm a bit conserned that monsanto could be a serious threat to farming in general & small farms & gardeners in particular. MonSatan" may not be far from correct . As soon as Obama care is dead ill make something of that nature my signature.
Ill sell my monsanto stock monday . I'm sure that will cripple the company LOL.

[klorentz]

All media reports say Mr. Ball still owns Burpee.


Kevin

[Roserock]

All media reports say Mr. Ball still owns Burpee.


KevinI wonder if this take over rumor is an attempt by Monsanto to drive them out of business and into their clutches. :eek:

[klorentz]

Ya never know. It is not unheard of. But I did happen to run across a forum/Blog some time ago which Mr. Ball is on. He was very adamant that he was in control.If this was indeed Mr. Ball. The thing is he does not seem to understand the anti Seminis movement. If it was just Seminis aka Peto seed then it would be a different story. But with Monsanto owning Seminis that is a whole other can of worms. I just hope Burpee stays under Mr. Ball's control.


Kevin

[silverseeds]

I wonder if this take over rumor is an attempt by Monsanto to drive them out of business and into their clutches. :eek:

LOL It could be, hard to tell sometimes.

Strange to me how active the burpee company was in its early days, at some great plant breeding. They dont seem to come up with very many new vaieties now, atleast for the stuff I looked into.

atleast burpee still sells some OP seed, whoever owns them.

I wish bad thoughts for monsanto all the time. LOL. It is my least favorite company, and in a world with blackwaters, and haliburtons thats saying alot.