www.stopanimalid.org

[mommagoose]

Because this is a forum about food in general I have added the link www.stopanimalid.org. The USDA is developing a plan in which every animal listed as livestock will be given an RFID( radiofrequency identification)tag. Each farm has to register and be given a 15 digit identification number. Right now this is a voluntary program but in March 2006, it will become manditory in New York. This is not just for the big guys this includes anyone with a horse, cow, sheep, goat, chicken, camel ,alpaca, emu or even fish. Basically you will have to be licensed to be a farmer in the United States. Please educate yourself on this subject by going to the listed site.
Thanks
mommagoose

[GreenZone]

Thanks for the heads-up. I just can't believe this would pass court scrutiny. But you just never know. Really really bad...
--Randel

[flowerpower]

This is the first I've heard of this ID process. There has been nothing in the papers or on the news regarding this. I would think it would be really big news in my county. We have over 250,000 dairy cows alone.

I do know someone who had to register animals with the USDA in Sept. This guy had 2 baby reindeer that he wants to use for shows, fairs etc. The USDA wanted the animals to wear these huge ear tags with ID #s. The owner complained that the tags would not look good in pics. He was allowed to get them tattoos on the inside of the ear. That is not the same as an RFID at all. These animals are residents of NY and considered "exotics". So how strict are they really being?

[Country Tattler]

Ho-leeee! I joined this forum just a few minutes ago and already learned something important! Thanks for the heads-up. What won't they think of next?!?

[mommagoose]

This is the first I've heard of this ID process. There has been nothing in the papers or on the news regarding this. I would think it would be really big news in my county. We have over 250,000 dairy cows alone.

I do know someone who had to register animals with the USDA in Sept. This guy had 2 baby reindeer that he wants to use for shows, fairs etc. The USDA wanted the animals to wear these huge ear tags with ID #s. The owner complained that the tags would not look good in pics. He was allowed to get them tattoos on the inside of the ear. That is not the same as an RFID at all. These animals are residents of NY and considered "exotics". So how strict are they really being?

I know that it sounds like a very strange new regulation and next to impossible to inforce but never the less the USDA seems to be going ahead with it. I live in new york state and their plan is available to review at
http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml after you get to the main website look in the right hand column. There is a search engine in which you can type in your particular state to get the individual states plan. New York State plans to have all animal owners residences registered by March 2006.
I am wondering if the silence by the USDA is to prevent any controversy being made public. They are trying to slide this past everyone until its too late to respond. The period for discussion is almost over here in NY. Please educate yourself and help us educate the masses before it is too late.
Thanks
Linda

[flowerpower]

Mommagoose, I couldn't find any real info on NY. Do you know anyone who was contacted by the USDA or is complying voluntarily? I don't. I wonder about the lack of publicity also. My local news is out of Albany but I never heard anything? That doesn't seem right.

[mommagoose]

I know these regulations sound unbeleavable, but its true. Several states are beginning the registration of farms. There have been reports that in order to buy animal feed you need to give your name and address.
www.stopanimalid.org is keeping tract of all the new information as it appears. The site was only days old when I first reported it here.
I have not been contacted by the state to register my chickens yet. New York has begun with cattle and horse owners so far. I think they are keeping this quiet to prevent farmers from organizing against it.
Again, if you would like information from both sides go to these URLS:
www.stopanimalid.org
http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml to find your specific state, look on the left hand column ofr the search engine and type it in.
Also, www.homesteadingtoday.com has numerous threads on this subject as does www.poultryconnection.com Forums.

[xxx]

Thanks mommagoose!
Today while at the vet (cat problem) I noticed a petition to stop an ordinance limiting the amount of animals you can own!
While this doesnt pertain to the above it is yet another example of the lengths the gov't will go to!
Even at small local levels!

[PaulF]

I wonder if many of the same people who are anti-id also would scream like crazy to find out the source of tainted meat in the food chain and would be quick to blame the "government." I am not pro-id, not a vegetarian, not pro-government intrusion, just wondering why the hue and cry. I own no animals but a dog and she has to be registered, I am registered and I feel non of my rights are being trampled upon.....yet.

[flowerpower]

I just really feel it's an invasion of privacy. Say I do register. Does this give the USDA the right to enter my property anytime? According to what I read, if the animals leave the property, they will have to be registered. So, then my goats can't graze at my neighbor's without being registered. We share a property line and he wants them to eat the brush. Is that the govt's business?

If there is tainted meat in the food chain, who do we blame? It is the USDA who puts those huge stamps that say "USDA Approved" on meat. The govt should be concerned about animals destined for the table. But shouldn't they already be registered? Don't these farmers have to keep detailed records for immunizations, worming, meds, breeding?

[GreenZone]

Yesterday at the feedstore I saw the official notice about Animal ID in Missouri. Our notice basically said that registration was open and where to register one's critters. No mandatory language in it, but one suspects that's coming. They say the information is only to be used re. animal health concerns (epidemics) but don't these things usually start out safely limited till someone starts finding other uses for the data....? I don't know anything about it really but am very very skeptical. (I'm thinking of how my social security number is not to be used as identification)
--Randel

[flowerpower]

The feed stores will be getting poultry chicks in a few weeks. I am curious to see how the chicks will be "tagged" for ID.

[mommagoose]

I am all for a healthy food supply. I am against the idea of forcing small producers out of business. The burden of these regulations fall on the little guy and not the big corporate producers. The corporate producers do not have to tag individual animals . They are given group numbers. The small producer like myself, I have 100 chickens, must tag each bird . Estimates for the cost of RFID chips is $3.00 a piece, plus the cost of the scanning device and the fee for implanting the chips. It will be hard to recoup the costs when I only get $1.50 a dozen for my eggs.
The third part of the plan is data gathering. If an animal is taken to a livestock show, sent out for breeding or in the case of horses goes on a trail ride off the property, it must be reported within 24 hours. I have a female goat, if I want to breed her I must report her visit to the buck. The people with the buck also have to report it.
Someone is making a bundle of money off this but it is not the small farmer. I fear we are an endangered people.

[HillsideDigger]

Its ironic that there is such a detailed history is kept on livestock

and so little is known about the identity and history of countless nationals from other countries in the US.

[Laughingpanther]

There's money in keeping track of livestock; no money in keeping track of potential human threats. Thousands of Muslims came over here over the years and just disappeared. No one knows where they are. Most of them probably did so because they like it here and don't want to go back their old countries. While it is a little unnerving that there are thousands of Muslims whose whereabouts are unknown, they are probably not a threat.

[flowerpower]

New York already has very strict laws for animals that are exposed to the public. I worked for a petting zoo for 2 yrs. We had to keep very detailed records of the animals immunizations etc..

Diseases can spread quickly in crowded areas like fairgrounds or auctions. You take your chances when your animals are there. It's the owner's responsibility to immunize their animals. My neighbor bought a pygmy goat buck at the auction. The animal was clearly sick- droopy eyes, trouble standing, lethargic. Yet they still auctioned him off. He's doing fine now physically. Turns out he has some type of brain damage. Seems someone shot him between the eyes with a BB gun.

[Sprocket]

This only the first step in mandating it in us. There has already been a lot of advertising our way about having a chip implanted with people so that Dr.s could do a "quick scan" and get them the "medical aid that they desparately needed, faster." If this doesn't scare everyone, it should. A therapist friend of mine told me that paranoia was a good thing ; )

[flowerpower]

From Mother Earth News
Issue 214 Feb/Mar 2006
page 32

Big Brother in the Barnyard


The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is developing a National Animal Identification Sysytem (NAIS) for all livestock.The plan- which may become mandatory -would require every person who owns even livestock animal to register in a federal database and to tag the animal, possibly with a microchip that can be read from a distance.

The USDA said the program would help identify farm animals exposed to diseases, so that problems can be contained and eradicated quickly.

Critics say that NAIS is just another program designed to benefit large-scale producers whose animals have a higher risk of disease outbreaks. They are also concerned the identification program will invade farmers' privacy and create heavy financial burdens for small-scale producers.

To learn more about the potential problems of this program, search for the article "The Real Deal:Tagging Terrorist Chickens" at www.scoop.co.nz. For the USDA's perspective and to read the public comments on the proposal, go to www.usda.gov/nais.

---Umut Newbury

[zebraman]

Hey You Guys do understand America is a Capitalist Country.If something is already on the market its a little late to be trying to stop it.They already Micro-Chip Exotic pets and Ostrich.There are also Chips in the waistbands of most brands of Designer Underwear ie CK,IM,DKNY, and Jeans as well so Co.s can track your purchases in stores so they can tailor make coupons for what they already know you buy.5 seconds in the microwave completly circumvents all of this.I agre there are alot of things wrong with the USA. but there is alot more wrong with the rest of the planet

[Sprocket]

It is a huge invasion of privacy and WE ARE NEXT!!! Six months ago there was and ad on TV for a company that was telling folks to have this chip implanted so that "they could receive medical treatment faster." Knowing our government let's ponder the possiblities. No insurance, hm, no service. Elderly drawing SS....well maybe we'll just make it so your chip turns you off. We are living in a society where most have stopped asking questions and now more than ever we should be doing so. Maybe the intentions a genuine :cool: but I doubt it. As I tell my students, before you buy into anything think about all of the ramifications before you decide.

[Ohiogal]

I'm new here, so howdy!
Sprocket, you are so right. We don't think. We just buy into whatever is fed to us via the TV. People seem to equate "easy" with "free". Easy now means no freedom. And we are slowly being tied hand and foot to the point where we won't be able to defend ourselves at all. Big Brother will rule it all.
I'm am very alarmed that this technology will not only force out the smaller farmers, but also eventually wend its way into our bodies, and our lives.
We must either A) Stop the mandatory process or B) come up with a law that will circumvent the forcing of this technology upon us.
Who here has thought about talking to their local representative? I personally would like to have a say-so no how this is to be adopted. We should be able to VOTE. It should NOT be left to some autocrat in some office deciding what is better for me and my animals. Someone who has no idea who I am or what I do with my animals.

[TastyofHasty]

Once again, it's a matter of "National Security" and trying to PROTECT the people by taking away the freedoms of the people. Doing "good" which in ACTUALITY does "bad." If there is a "threat" to be guarded against, then government has the right to invade the privacies of the people. So in order to invade the privacy of the people, it is only necessary to discover/create/publicize some threat or other and VOILA! we lose the right to keep animals without harassing red tape. I am waiting for the next step: we lose the right to save seeds.

I've been reading up on the "World Bank" which seems to be following the same procedure by saying that they are trying to "help people;" in ACTUALITY however, they "screw up" a lot, loan money to third world countries where programs get put into effect that don't really help the folks at the bottom but only the ones at the top, and the flow of money ends up going FROM third world countries TO the developed ones.

And Mr. Wolfowitz is now the head of the World Bank. Again, that is pretty "iffy!!!"

And ... well, I keep going back to the fact that so many of our presidents and VIP's are members of Skull and Bones. Arrrrrgh. Horrorshow.

[GreenCap]

Thanks for the info on animalid. Animal chips next comes human chips, thanks but NO THANKS. If it becomes mandatory (don't laugh it could happen sooner then you think just look at how vaccines are now supposedly mandatory and there are all kinds of monkey viruses and chicken cells in those) well they will have to hog-tie me to implant any chip in me or my family. I'll be the crazy lady in the woods clutching my seeds in one hand and my chicken in the other.

[zebraman]

Hey Greencap:they already have Human Chips.It is Used in big Buisenesses.They Call the practice "Tagging" they use it for gaining Security over Badges.If you are against this Don't work for Corporate America.

[tashak]

So--trout, deer, antelope, elk, moose, buffalo, squirrels, raccoons, bear, mountain goats, Dall sheep, sage hens, prairie chickens, wild turkeys, migratory ducks and geese, etc. are food animals. Are national parks, wildlife preserves, official wetlands, state parks, etc. going to fall under this requirement? If not, why not?
Can just imagine the effect this would have on sheep herders, rodeo participants, 4Hers, etc. aside from effect on small grow-it-yourselfers.
I keep having this absurd vision of the baby goldfish at Walmart being NAIS-tagged.
This NAIS thing started with 2004 with research grants, including availability to projects by producers and Indian tribes. (Haven't found the info as to who received these grants yet on the NAIS website.) Wonder what connection, if any, there is with campaign contributions by the tag makers?

[GreenCap]

Yes Zebra I know they have them for humans but they are not yet mandatory. I have NO interest in working in corperate america but if I did I still wouldn't do it....EVER. I can see our government trying to make it mandatory using "security" as thier reason. I don't know I am one of those people that believe in real freedom, that to me means I get to choose if I want to have a chip implanted or if I don't. I don't need the government to "protect" me. Thats a bunch of poo. The only people I need to be protected from is our government.

[TastyofHasty]

Revelation 13:

[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Thought I'd go ahead and post the Biblical reference.

[TastyofHasty]

Oh yeah, and here's the other part, from Revelation 14:

[9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

[dirtundernails]

Tasty, yes.

OK, my hubby has been calling our representatives in both House and Senate, at the State and Federal level. Some of them were not even aware of it's existance, and none of them were familiar with it ( which means have not read it or don't know the details). Our State House rep had some knowledge and was against it. This tells me that the majority of people are unaware of its existance, therefore, are not calling and giving any input to the people who will eventually pass the laws. When there is no outcry, you can bet that the majority of the elected graft grabbers will pass this with no real thought or knowledge, because they do not believe that there will be any political repercussions. So, git offen yer butten, and maken the phone callen and gripen muchen! ( Generally, your preachin' to the choir here, so put down the mouse and print out the NAIS draft proposal, highlight the parts that you find insane, then make the phone calls, and reference the pertinent info. Follow up with a WRITTEN letter after they send you their usual staff answered response. )
They are just people, not some elite bunch of untouchables. We like to remind folks that representatives are public servants, not overlords. Reps especially enjoy being given this reminder. ;)
BTW, my biggest concern is for the Amish and people who live in similar fashion. How in the world is an Amish guy supposed to let the gov. know that he's driving his buggy to the store, or having chicken for dinner? On the windmill phone, or the wood fired laptop? :rolleyes:


dun

[GreenCap]

Yes Tasty and dun, I am definitely gonna send them a letter! I am about to see if the amish will take me in.....lol. I live by a lot of amish people and thier ways are looking better and better. I just saw on the news yesterday about a couple that had chips implanted so they didn't have to use a key to open locks and stuff like that..... :eek: .What the..... Are people really this stupid. I guess so, they are like well we were worried about getting tracked but they can't track you from it.Yeah right. They must believe everything you tell them, I mean cmon do they really think the government is gonna tell them if they are being tracked. I know some of my friends think I am a little radical....(and I am) but you have to be these days. I feel that the world is going to hell real quick. Does it seem that way to you? I mean I have read revalations and is it just a coinsidence that now we have people getting chips implanted?That is how the government fools people, they introduce something like the chip (there is always some moron willing to be the guniea pig) then they wait a year or two and then say, see it is safe, we are not gonna track you, we would never do that ;) . Then other morons go ok cool I'll do it too. Well I guess since I am gonna go join the amish, I better get to sewing, I think my DH's butt will look cute in those homemade jeans......lol-aundrea

[flowerpower]

I read an article about microchips in humans and how this will improve health care. All of your medical info will be on the chip. Your Dr (more likely his secretary) will be able to update this information. I bet most people will think it's a great idea, even if they know they could be tracked.

[GreenCap]

I don't go to the doctor much, actually not once in the last almost 5 years, I use herbs and good food, I do have insurance(just because I have kids) but do not use it. I use herbs on them also,they work better. We do not vaccinate either because of all the Bad things in the vaccines(sv40). We don't believe that putting monkey viruses,formaldehyde,mercury, in our new baby is ever a good thing, kinda like genetically modifiying our food. God made it the way it is suppose to be.Actually we also believe that a lot of the diseases and killer flu like viruses are directly related to vaccines so as you can see we are not the norm, we also do not attack people that choose to believe differently, my oldest son,sad to say, did get his first set of shots, I just did like most people and assumed they were ok, after all the nurse said my child couldn't even get into school without his shot record, so like a dummy I just trusted the fact that she was a professional and assumed she knew what she was talking about( my mistake because she was wrong) and I then decided to really research the issue and well I found out all kinds of stuff about vaccines, BAD STUFF in those things, then I found out that you don't need to have a shot record because there are exemptions including moral and religious exemptions, so after that I said no more blind trust. Wwheww, kinda got off subject there :rolleyes: , I just get really worked up about that :) As you could probably guess I wont be falling for the old well we will just store that info for you under your skin, it will be so much easier for you crap....lol -god bless, aundrea

[leelanau_ferg]

Link to another story re: this topic...

http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/03/10/griscom-little/index.html?source=daily

(An interesting website for other topics as well)

[Ohiogal]

Cross posting this from another board....


Just to let everyone know what's going on on the NAIS front. TAHC - the Texas Animal Health Commission - will be registering premisis in NE Texas on Monday the 13th. One woman who will be at the sign up event and will be handing out information against the NAIS knows a lady who was contacted by TAHC and interviewed over the phone. They asked her for all her information saying that she wouldn't actually be required to register with the system but that they would like to take her info anyway. Guess what, she's registered now. She did not give her permission to be signed up, but now her home and all her animals are registered with the federal government and in Texas's database.

This is the text of the notice -
"A premises registration will be held at the Morris County Annex in Daingerfield from 6:30 to 9:00 pm Monday. Dr. Jason Banta will be the speaker.
Premises registration identifies the physical locations where livestock, exotic livestock, domestic fowl, and exotic fowl are held, managed, or handled. As an example, presmises can include farms or ranches, feedlots, veterinary offices, arenas, livestock show grounds, rendering facilities, and other facilities, as addressed in the TAHC regulations. The actual premises identification number is a randomly generated, individual seven-charcter alphanumeric code, allocated via the USDA's copmuter system. This code is known as the premises identification number, also known as "PIN"
Persons who do not have internet access mayobtain the information by calling the TAHC at 1-800-550-8242.
National working groups are developing recommendations for identification methods, are addressing potential cultural and religious issues, and determining which movements would be reportable.
For more information on NAIS, visit the TAHC web site at http://www.tahc.state.tx.us for links to the USDA, or go directly to http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml . If you do not have internet access, call the TAHC at 1-800-550-8242 for free information booklets from the US Department of Agriculture."

TAHC is proposing to make premises registration in Texas mandatory well before the federal program is scheduled to go mandatory in January 2008. A large protest caused the commissioners to postpone the move untill the end of March or May, but if you live in Texas and don't want to have to register your place you need to stay up on this as they are trying to sneak it in under everyone's radar. When it goes mandatory everyone covered will face a $1,000/day or more fine for failure to comply.

And this aint' just happening in Texas, it's going on all over the country.
This from Virginia -
PRESS RELEASE

DATE: Jan. 27, 2006

RELEASE DATE: Immediately

CONTACT: Joel Salatin 540-885-3590

RE: HOUSE BILL MAY OUTLAW BACKYARD CHICKEN FLOCKS

RICHMOND--A house bill authorizing the Commissioner of Agriculture to license backyard poultry flocks without "public participation" has raised the hackles on many small farmers and poultry enthusiasts.

House Bill 982 titled "Control of Avian Influenza" empowers the commissioner to "adopt regulations to prevent and control avian influenza in commercial and noncommercial poultry" and to "establish by regulation a registration or licensing system to regulate . . . all persons who operate a live-bird market, production unit, or distribution unit." The bill specifically exempts the regulations from "public participation guidelines" and the "Administrative Process Act."

The "registration or licensing system may include, but not be limited to, the granting, denial, suspension, or revocation of any registration or license," according to the bill.

Submitted by Del. Lynwood Lewis Jr. (D) from the Eastern Shore, the bill originated from Secretary of Agriculture Robert Bloxom. When asked who wrote the bill, Bloxom responded: "I don't know." When asked where it originated, he answered: "It just appeared on my desk."

Today, Del. Lewis received a faxed letter from Christine Solem, spokesperson for the Virginia Independent Consumers and Farmers Assocation (VICFA) citing three sections in the Code of Virginia that authorize emergency regulations involving an "imminent threat to public health and safety."

When asked about these current provisions, Bloxom said that the Virginia Board of Agriculture may not be able to convene a quorum in a timely enough manner to deal with the emergency.

"Because the bill empowers the commissioner to enter 'other premises subject to regulation hereunder' and does not define 'production unit' it could easily extend registration requirements to any home flock in the Commonwealth," said Joel Salatin, president of VICFA. "And then to specifically exempt all this new power from public participation, without even a Governor's signature, is incomprehensible. After all, this isn't a police state---yet," he said.

Dr. Richard Wilkes, Virginia State Veterinarian, said although he did not write the bill, he conceived it as a protection against "live bird markets" that exist primarily in ethnic quarters of New York and New Jersey. "We do not have any of those in Virginia and I don't expect we will have any," he said.

"Then why authorize the Commissioner, free from public input, to outlaw any and all poultry flocks in the Commonwealth?" an incredulous Salatin wants to know.

And that's not the half of it. NAIS, which was supposed to cover all animals in the USA - except dogs, cats, and certain other pet animals - in one huge data base, is now leaning towards multiple data bases as the big livestock producers want the data bases to track more than just the location of animals. So now we'll have to register our chickens with one data base, horses with another, if you have a goat, you get to deal with another, and so on and so on. By the time this is all over and done with, it's going to cost me more to register my animals and update the fed on where they are at all times than it does to feed them......

[flowerpower]

Ohiogal, thanks. Very informative. I just picked up an order form for poultry chicks at the feed store. There was absolutely no mention of NAIS on them.

[Bellepepper]

I don't mean to make light of this, I know it is very serious. But can you imagine, we have all our chickens in their data base. Then one of our setting hens hatch out a batch of babies. Here comes the government man and takes our setting hen cause she had babies without a permit. Funny? NOT funny.

[flowerpower]

I went to the feed store and asked about ordering chicks. I asked if the birds will be "tagged". The owner looked at me like I was crazy. They say they have never heard of NAIS and that the USDA has not contacted them about it.

[rngardener]

Dear Greencap:

I respect your decision not to have your children vaccinated -- although I disagree with it and am glad that you are not the norm. A tiny percentage of people do have reactions to vaccinations -- however, many more people used to die from those diseases which we are vaccinating against...

However, I hope that you will visit a doctor or nurse practitioner more than once every five years -- and that your children will too. Although eating a good diet is an excellent way to reduce risk factors -- many people get cancer every year who have no risk factors at all. And cancer is often symptom free until it is TOO late. Dangerously high blood pressure is also symptom free but can lead to stroke and kidney failure.

Again: I respect your decision to make your own choices and live your life your own way. But the nurse in me encourages you to get check ups.

As for microchips in humans? Not in me, not ever!

[ceresone]

one thing i didnt see mentioned that was on other forums (maybe i missed it
?)
this is supposed to protect our food supply? i understood on another forum, but not verified, that the last horse slaughter plant had been closed in the U.S? how many plan on eating their horses? yet, this is being done to protect our food supply?
the references to the Bible, i think fit!!

[flowerpower]

If an animal comes down with some disease like Mad Cow or Bird Flu, the animal can be tracked back to the farm where it was born. Horse meat is like any other meat in some countries. Some people find dog and cat tasty. To each his own.

I can't really relate to the whole biblical thing. So I won't comment on that.

[GreenCap]

Hello rngardener, first I want to say I hope I didn't offend you when I went off about vaccines, I did not mean to imply that nurses or docs were bad people, I do think that vaccines are a BIG money business, there are no long term studies. I mean what goes up must come down. If you inject a child with formaldehyde,aluminum,thimerosol(mercury) right into thier bloodstream as soon as they are born well, where do you think that goes? Now they are all carcinogens, and if you are 30 and get some horrible cancer well how can you say that it is or is not from the vaccine. You can't. I believe in GOD. I believe that HE knew what he was doing when HE created us, I don't think he forgot anything. Now thimerosol was just recently taken out of SOME of those vaccines because they finally had to admit it was bad. Which means if you got your child vaccinated a few years ago the docs probably said they were safe but then they remove that ingredient because it is not safe. See they don't know either, vioxx is safe, oh no it is not safe, bextra is safe oh wait it is not safe. Hiv and aids come from monkey viruses, hmmm sv40 is simian monkey virus # 40, in the older vaccines, a monkey virus that they used to make vaccines and they innoculated a whole bunch of people in Africa with that "safe" vaccine and now we have bird flu, hmmmm vaccines are incubated using chicken embryo and then injected into your perfect baby, now we are wondering how these viruses are crossing speices....hmmmm lets think about this. As for unvaccinated kids getting these diseases, well if my unvaccinated child plays with your vaccinated child and just happens to get polio, (in the last 20 years the ONLY cases of polio were spread that way) then it was your child that is to blame, not mine. Now I know all of you gardeners are saying what does this have to do with gardening, well you don't want genetically altered seeds and I don't want genetically altered people although it really is too late most of us have already been genetically modified.Talk about frankenfoods how about franken people.I do want to say hey if you get your child vaccinated that is your choice, just make sure you do your research don't be bullied by some doc or nurse that says you have to to get your child in school because it is not true.

[dirtundernails]

That's Right, Green Cap!

dun

[matt090303]

I am new here. just read about the seed companies coming under central controls in the Countryside mag. i own some cattle, sheep, and lots of poultry and have been watching this animal ID for some time. If any of you think it has anything to do with controling disease, I want you to explaing how, having an rfid tag will control a disease. It all is about controling people through the food supply, and making lots and lots of money.check out who is the driving force behind the animal id, big corporations. see ya

[chiledoug]

here is a good site on this subject.nonais.org (www.nonais.org)

[chiledoug]

yes matt thats exactly what it is control!!!!!!

[dirtundernails]

So, how many of you have bothered to contact your state and U.S. reps, and give them your input?

(Preaching to the choir gains no converts)

If you are "too busy" to write, where are you going to find the time to implement these tyrannical policies if they become law? ( If one was truly short on time, I would rather they send letters to their reps than post anything about it here, where it can not really do much.)

just my .01
Hubby of DUN.

[vprince]

Hi, all:

I just joined this forum with the impetus of NAIS. My husband and I have an endangered poultry hatchery (albc-usa.org has a good list if endangered poultry is a new thing to anybody) and I am *really* concerned about NAIS and the fact that it's just sort of going on "behind closed doors" in many ways. Most people *have* never heard of it - and I have found it's a *real* challenge to get any media agencies to be the remotest bit interested.

There are some very good press release articles out there by Dr. Mary Zanoni addressing not only the NAIS but also addressing the hype on avian flu. If you haven't read these articles, I'd recommend doing a search for them and reading them.

There's a lot of things you can do to try and increase public awareness of what the USDA is trying to do. NoNAIS.org has flyers you can print and post at various locations. Write your local, state and federal officials. Organize a public meeting. What *not* to do? Don't assume they won't do it, because they will. Don't assume it won't concern you, because even if you don't have animals, it will. If nothing else, it's going to affect where you can get your food, who you get it from and the price you're going to have to pay.

And - I know this sounds "paranoid", but for anyone who has a farm - do *not* answer "survey" questions from the USDA and State Dept's of Agriculture. They are involuntarily registering people who even call to find out what the program is about and touting their "voluntary registrations" as proof of overwhelming support for the program. (Washington State, Arizona, California, Oregon and Georgia have all been actively registering people with and without their consent.)

For anyone who doesn't know, the NAIS was originally "sponsored" by Monsanto (Chemical mfg and genetic alteration company extraordinaire) and Cargill Meats (Agribusiness personified) among others (see article, "Backyard Poultry" and NoNAIS website). It is also interesting to note that our own Donald Rumsfeld is a major stockholder in the company manufacturing Tamiflu (I suspect this is why Avian flu scare tactics are being ramped up so much, but that is personal conjecture.) This was part of an article reprinted in the Heirloom Gardener.

Ok, off my soap box and back to public awareness building.

Vicky