Is horse manure a no-no for compost?

[Nut-N-But-News]

My neighbor says horse manure is best, but I heard also it's a no-no.

[older than dirt]

My neighbor says horse manure is best, but I heard also it's a no-no.

They are both wrong lol.
Its OK but not the best . Actually nothing wrong with it but is pretty low on nitrogen. Think some one found resurch on that & Oak leaves & horse manure had about the same nitrogen content.

I like it to lossen up clay soil but I don't compost it first.

[JBSpringer]

I believe the problem that some people have had with manure does not depend on whether it is cow or horse manure; The question that should be asked is, Was the hay the animal ate treated with an herbicide like Picloram or Roundup type chemical?

Do this test before you use any unknown manure in your garden or compost. Fill up half way a 5 gallon bucket with manure and then fill it up with water. Let it sit overnight and the following day pour the water on some broad leaf plants or weeds that you don't care about then wait a day or 2. If the plants/weeds are dead a day or 2 later well then you know the answer. If the plants/weeds don't die well then it is probably okay.

JBS

[Longtail]

What!!!???

[JBSpringer]

Longtail there is nothing complicated about this. I have done this and have seen this myself and you can too, don't just take my word. Try it.

JBS

[HillsideDigger]

My late father-in-law insisted that horse manure was better than cow manure

although I think neither one comes close to chicken litter

but I throw it all and more into one big pile and turn it frequently.

[JBSpringer]

Follow up on my response;

Pay close attention to the last sentence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picloram



The product is so good or bad depending on what side of the fence you stand but for now lets just say it is very persistent and that it is still strong enough to continue killing even after digestion.



JBS

[bhpigeon2]

They are both wrong lol.
Its OK but not the best . Actually nothing wrong with it but is pretty low on nitrogen. Think some one found resurch on that & Oak leaves & horse manure had about the same nitrogen content.
Yep, oak leaves are 0.8 nitrogen while horse manure is 0.7. 100# of horse manure contains 1.6 pounds of nutrients. 100# of oak leaves contain 1.3. 100# of cow manure also contains 1.3 pounds but 0.6 nitrogen.

bhp2

[jbest123]

I believe the problem that some people have had with manure does not depend on whether it is cow or horse manure; The question that should be asked is, Was the hay the animal ate treated with an herbicide like Picloram or Roundup type chemical?

Do this test before you use any unknown manure in your garden or compost. Fill up half way a 5 gallon bucket with manure and then fill it up with water. Let it sit overnight and the following day pour the water on some broad leaf plants or weeds that you don't care about then wait a day or 2. If the plants/weeds are dead a day or 2 later well then you know the answer. If the plants/weeds don't die well then it is probably okay.

JBS

I think your test can be a little misleading. Where I get my HM, they clean the stalls every day. There are stables in the area that are less costly to board a horse but the owner has to clean the stall him/her self, which is usually only done on weekends. That means that one pile of HM can have seven times the urea than another pile of HM. Too much urea on the foliage will kill the plant as fast as anything can. John

[JBSpringer]

Jbest123 your suggestion can very well be just as good a reason along with many others.

In my neck of the woods the herbicide issue has been the problem. I have not used horse manure but on cow manure this is a true culprit. The results of the tests are pretty clear cut, if the leachate kills the test plants/weeds it will do the same to your garden it is as simple as that.


JBS

[jbest123]

My point is you will not know whether the herbicide or the urea or both killed your plants. Long before herbicides were used it was common for gardeners to use "manure teas" on there plants. It was commonly known not to apply the manure tea to the foliage or the plant would die. John

[JBSpringer]

My point is you will not know whether the herbicide or the urea or both killed your plants. Long before herbicides were used it was common for gardeners to use "manure teas" on there plants. It was commonly known not to apply the manure tea to the foliage or the plant would die. John

I agree with you 100% about that Jbest123.

Either way whatever the cause the test will give you a heads up though.

This is why I love gardening so much, it doesn't matter how long you do it there is always some new challenges every year.


JBS

[mjc]

The urea will compost in a few months, the herbicides...much, much longer (think in terms of years here...)

[Dramaqueen]

My neighbor says horse manure is best, but I heard also it's a no-no.




ITS BLACK GOLD:D

[swamp man]

Never again.

I'm still recovering from my terrible mistake last spring in amending with composted horse manure......it's a weed-bomb.

Lesson learned.

[chickweed]

I get neighbors stall muck by the dump trailer - free- so it is good stuff to me. The horses get good quality feed to supplement pasture feeding. No one in this area uses chemicals on lawns or gardens. There are even some herbs I won't plant, because I would not want to be responsible for something popping up in someone's pasture that would harm the horses or show back up as a weed seed in manure. So what I use is like DQs - black gold.

[whodat]

I know that sometimes when I dig into a new location at the stable's dumping ground, the ammonia is VERY strong! I usually try to get some which is already well composted, but the strong ammonia laden stuff helps to get my oak leaves cooking quickly, and hot!

[bhpigeon2]

Jbest123 your suggestion can very well be just as good a reason along with many others.

In my neck of the woods the herbicide issue has been the problem. I have not used horse manure but on cow manure this is a true culprit. The results of the tests are pretty clear cut, if the leachate kills the test plants/weeds it will do the same to your garden it is as simple as that.


JBS
The fact that cow manure leachate kills plants isn't from weed killer in the feed but the manure itself. What is leaching out are the salts. Fresh cow manure may be close to 9.0 pH and contain 5% or more salt. That combination will kill just about any plant.

bhp2

[chilesprout]

Horse manure has provided great results in my garden. It killed my lawn and fed my veggies. Two thumbs up!

[Train]

My neighbor says horse manure is best, but I heard also it's a no-no.

Ya
I use horse manure freely all the time.
So when I speak to you now it isn't
theory, it's current experience.
I want you to know what I think others
are trying to tell you.
All things good in moderation.
First of all horse manure is hot.
I mean really hot.
You stick your bare hand inside a
pile of fresh horsemanure and you'll
know hot!
So fresh is going to do more harm
than good.
Too much of a good thing?
Moreover most horse bedding today is
wood chips, mostly pine.
That means as earlier mentioned that
the bedding is going to rob the soil
of Nitrogen not to mention a change in
PH.
So, we now have a plant burnt from
heat, Nitro but then should some miracle
keep the plant alive it is going to soon be
starved for Nitrogen because all that pine
is going to such it out of the soil.
But that wasn't your question was it.
You want to know if you can put it to good
use in your compost heap.
The answer is a resounding YES!
Compost it. Just throw it in there in layers
as you do grass, leaves and soil.
Everything else you throw in there is a plus.
Moreover, you get a truck load of horse manure
in now and pile it up to decompose over the
winter and by late spring your should be able to
begin using it in small amounts.
As I said, horse manure is hot so care must be taken.
Don't put your entire crop at risk trying to
be brave or prove a point.
A little can do a lot.
I don't know what you plant or how much so
it's redundant for me to go further.
Compost that horse manure.
It will rot your heap much faster and dilute the
manure so that you wind up with much more
ompost that is much more nutritive.
Sound like a plan?
Luck to you
train

[TastyofHasty]

I'm of the same belief as Swamp Man ... horses don't digest grass and weed seeds very well and they go on through the horse into the manure, which then goes into the compost; if your compost hasn't heated enough to kill the seeds .... "WEED BOMB" is a good, memorable way to put it. "Garden full of every grass and weed the horse ate" is another way.

[bogydave]

HM is great for compost. If you get the whole mix of the stall bedding & horse apples (which jbest mentioned, has the urine(nitrogen) in the saw dust) (& what I get) it will cook fine & I've had great success.
Cook it about 3 months. If you're worried it may not have broke down the bedding if saw dust, mix some fresh green grass clippings & cook some more. (other ways also to add nitrogen) just watch for yellowing of plants but rare & most likely no problem (just success) if you plan to mixed some in with other compost material.
Less shrinkage & cooks (stays hot) longer than typical compost piles.
http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23460
Just add seeds &/or plants then every now & then a little water.

Results: Straight 100% HM/saw dust cooked compost in the SFG raised 8 & 10 inch deep beds. Best garden ever. No weeds because it cooked HOT. No nitrogen deficiency. 3 cutting of broc, 2 cuts of cabbage, lots of g-beans. big carrots, beets, peas, lettuce etc. everything liked it.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/grdn7-5-09.jpg
did i mention Horse Manure is GREAT for COMPOST. Less worry about many additives. They eat grain & hay & ARE NOT feed to grow quick & big & then sold to be eaten. Not sold by weight, not given growth hormones etc, Usually they are pets & taken good care of.

[chickweed]

Bogy - awesome garden! Imagine what you could do with a longer growing season!

[chickweed]

It seems like the answer is that there is horse manure - and there is horse manure. When it is good, it is very,very good - when it is weedy, it is very,very weedy! You just have to know your horse:D

[LuvsToPlant]

bogydave...nice garden :)
you all made some good points.

My turn...
There is some work in making horse manure workable...if... that is what you have for choice.
I have always been raised that horse manue is taboo
(by the way...I grew up on a farm that was the 2nd largest exporter
of Maine potatoes...so lots of fields)

BUT with a little extra effort it can work.
I may give it a try some day :)


Just thought I would add these links ...it can explain.
http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0212.html
and a fact sheet from Cornwell.
http://www.gardening.cornell.edu/factsheets/ecogardening/guidenutval.html

I do question though...
why you only find cow manure in garden centers.
??

[chickweed]

bogydave...nice garden :)
you all made some good points.

My turn...
There is some work in making horse manure workable...if... that is what you have for choice.
I have always been raised that horse manue is taboo
(by the way...I grew up on a farm that was the 2nd largest exporter
of Maine potatoes...so lots of fields)

BUT with a little extra effort it can work.
I may give it a try some day :)


Just thought I would add these links ...it can explain.
http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0212.html
and a fact sheet from Cornwell.
http://www.gardening.cornell.edu/factsheets/ecogardening/guidenutval.html

I do question though...
why you only find cow manure in garden centers.
??

Cattlemen market it and horse owners don't, maybe? - because cow manure is more plentiful in a concentrated area? The stable owners I know are glad to give the stall muck away just to get rid of it.

[stone]

It seems like the answer is that there is horse manure - and there is horse manure. When it is good, it is very,very good - when it is weedy, it is very,very weedy! You just have to know your horse:D

That's why mulch is important... garden soil generally has tons of seeds lying about... the secret isn't avoiding importing seeds... as I understand it... The secret is preventing them from coming up... keep that ground covered, & you don't get weeds...

Beautiful cool weather garden, bogydave!

I can't grow those cabbages & kohlrabies...

[bhpigeon2]

If horses are fed decent feed instead of weeds, their manure will have zero weed seeds. Sometimes people act as if there is a secret organ somewhere in a horse's bowels which manufacture them! The recommended rate of use is 50 pounds per 100 square feet. Since not everyone has a scale in their gardens, it's easier to figure 1 gallon per 10 square feet or 50 gallons per 500 square feet.

bhp2

[Echoes]

I use HM. It has to be composted or you get seeds from whatever they have eaten.... I've used cow, chicken, rabbit and mushroom. HM is great just make sure it's old or composted well before you apply. Rabbit is some of the best IMHO...

[ratdog]

Super garden,bogydave!

[bogydave]

Thanks CW, LTP, stone, rat
I have 2 composts going on. 1 is the HM, the other is garden/kitchen compost. I have weed seed in the garden compost, chickweed mostly. It don't get hot enough all the way thru to kill them all.
So "weed free" is just a dream I have. When I have enough I mix some of the garden with the HM & get weeds. Gives me something to do when i'm thinking about stuff, pull weeds. This is the 1st year with SFG & the straight HM compost beds had no or very few weeds.
Yes it does take some effort to do, but what that's worth while doesn't.
Cost of "man made" fertilizers are expensive $ & increasing.
The compost I make may not be able to be called "organic", but all it cost me is some work. Gives me the "warm fuzzy" feeling when i see what the work produces + reduces food bill $, & I know I don't use pesticides/herbicides (but I know almost all commercial growers do)

Best things: It's fun, good exercise, (I keep actively learning) it allows me to learn, share & "show off" ideas & results on forums like this with folks like you-all & be able to respond, with some degree of intelligence, from my experiences & it tastes good.

HM to me is not HM at all, it is "compost" in various stages, depending on when it hit the ground. :)

[reubenT]

I think there is some reservation among some strict organic folks because of the worm meds that horses get regularly, usually every 3 months. But I think most of us can ignore that little issue as it dosn't seem to notacibly affect anything. Horse manure is hot because it's high in undigested carbon with just enough nitrogen to get it heated up good, bird poop is hot because it's high in nitrogen. Weeds? there is a solution there, although maybe not a simple easy one, the simple one is yank em out, not so easy when there's millions of em. The easy method is spray em with deadly toxins, don't do it, it'll kill more than weeds. I have a solution started in the shop, but don't know when I'll ever find time to finish the thing, an old fashened steam engine, drive the thing across the garden at a snails pace with a bunch of amonia nozzels mounted under a steam hood pulling through the dirt behind it. blast that steam in there and kill the weed seed, oh but that'll kill the good microbes too wont it? yes, but I can reinoculate with some products from certain companies.

[LuvsToPlant]

chickweed...I do agree.
Did you read the 1st link on my post #25?
The Extention Service explains why most horse stables can't give the stuff away...even if they haul it to you.

:)

[jbest123]

L2P I was out yesterday to get a load of HM. The stable owner informed me he may no longer have HM when I need it. A local farmer had a dump truck and a front loader taking every thing he had. :mad: This place boards over a 100 horses and it was no small pile of HM.:eek: I was able to find another source though. This place boards about 30 horses but no current pile of HM. This owner told me any time I need HM to just leave my trailer there the night before and he would fill it in the morning.:D I don't know who is taking all of his HM. John

[chickweed]

chickweed...I do agree.
Did you read the 1st link on my post #25?
The Extention Service explains why most horse stables can't give the stuff away...even if they haul it to you.

:)

Luv - that link was very informative. I don't think I have run into anybody around here that uses anything but straw, but I have not been to one of the big stables in years. It could be, because most of the people I know that have stables, also have farm land or gardens and they recycle on their own property. The horses who make my black gold have straw in the stalls, and don't eat weeds - so no weeds seeds pop out. (However, I have been known to wander over to the pasture and slip them an apple or a carrot to thank them for their contribution to my beautiful market flowers).

[jbest123]

I think bogyd is taking it all.:D John

[herb girl]

Hey bogy, love the pic!

We have a horse, and I'm very glad for it! He produces plenty of manure for us. I sheet compost his poop with leaves, straw and minerals. What wonderful black gold! I thank him everytime I go out in the pasture to get it. He is very thoughtful for us and always conveniently poops in the same place so it's easy to pick up (in the pasture). :)

[bogydave]

Thanks HG

L2P The stable owner informed me he may no longer have HM when I need it. A local farmer had a dump truck and a front loader taking every thing he had. :mad: . I think bogyd is taking it all. John John


John
I had the same problem this year. A commercial compost outfit is taking all the HM it can get. Then selling the finished compost for $10 for 1 cubic ft in bags at the local greenhouses, calling it "Aerated Compost".

Not that I've a need for more, I have about 35 yards working & several yards stored in bins BUT it goes to show you, HM has a market.
If I get a chance to get more, I will. I'm addicted to compost.

I've read some posts of the "down side" of using fresh HM but very few of "composted HM". The "Organic" issue is out there, but for me it's not an issue at all, it's as organic as the air & dust, we & plants use/process everyday & probably more organic than "city &/or bottled water" too. (IMHO)
I know it's good stuff & it's my garden & it works.

My opinion :
Horse Manure is a "Yes-Yes" for compost

[jbest123]

There is no organic issue with any manures as far as the USDA and the certifiers are concerned.:cool: There is a time of application requirement though. Can you imagine what contaminants may have been sprayed on the alfalfa field (organic nitrogen source) before harvesting:eek: or the heavy metals that may be present in fish emulsion (organic nitrogen source):eek:? John

[bogydave]

Wonder what blood is used to make "blood meal"?
Pigs & cows is my guess from large commercial slaughter houses.

Source - slaughterhouses make dried blood as a by-product of animal processing. A wide selection of blood fertilizer products is now available.
from: http://www.the-organic-gardener.com/blood-meal.html

When the facts are all in, each of us has to choose & make decisions based on what is important to us. For me "home-made compost from HM" is just my way to feed my garden. Many, many other ways work also.

[ceresone]

The more I read, the more confused I get!
So, what I'm going to do is pay no attention, put my chicken and horse manure liberally on my raised beds in the fall, cover with shredded leaves, and have a beautiful garden next year.
Like I said, the more I read, the less I know...

[bogydave]

ceresone:
"I'm going to do is pay no attention, put my chicken and horse manure liberally on my raised beds in the fall, cover with shredded leaves, and have a beautiful garden next year."

That will work well. & That's probably how you've done it for years so you already know that.
The original post was basically is HM good for making or mixing into compost.
Basic answer is yes.
Having some compost ready for immediate use in a pile or bin is just icing on the cake so to speak. (plant/seed starter, potted plants, new beds etc)
Your method is composting right in the raised beds, worms will love it also. You may get a few more weeds/grass in the beds, but if you're like me, pulling weeds is part of gardening (less is always better though :) )
If you put the manure on, in the fall, it'll grow a beautiful garden come Spring. But you knew that already.

AARG Spring, seems like so far away :(

PS: sorry for confusing the issue, I should learn to "shut up" sometimes. (I'm still learning composting, but Mother Nature bails me out, she' the pro)

[Windcrest Farm]

I have been going around the pasture in spring and shoveling up the over wintered horse patties. These patties are about half way broken down (no longer 'apples') and they are loaded with earthworms. I do worry about the dewormer load in horse manure more than I do the weed seeds. I mulch heavily so weeds are not much of a problem.

My black gold comes from the lamb barn on my farm. There is a windrow of sheep manure that is at least 6 years old. The farmerman turns it about about twice a year and I haul it away by the wheelbarrow. The windrow is about 6 feet high and 20 feet long. He also feeds chopped corn silage to the sheep so I rake the leftovers and use that as mulch or add it to my wire bins. Lovely, lovely stuff...I do know that the corn used is gmo but organic practice is as close as I'll ever get to 'organic' as long as I live here.

[mjc]

Posted something about wormer meds a few weeks ago...it seems that it breaks down quickly (a few months at most), doesn't affect earthworms (or most non-parasite worms) and generally is innocuous...the antibiotics critters may get are more of a problem.

Also, GMO corn will not be much of a problem, after composting a few months...