Wash Dishes or Paper Plates?

[Painted Goat]

A lady at my church is attempting to get us to use paper plates instead of our current collection of plates and cups because she is certain it is more enviromentally friendly. I've done some looking but I'm only finding blog posts. Does anyone have any hardcore info on this subject? Opinions as nice as they are will not help in my argument. Thanks

[r3tic]

I don't know where the data is, but I have read that it is better to use washable than paper. As long as you are not using detergents with phosphates or bleach. Paper uses a large amount of energy to create and landfill space after it has been used.

[chickweed]

I stopped using paper at home and went back to washing dishes. I also bought a box lot of old towels for 5.00 at an auction and spilt them into smaller pieces to use instead of paper towels.If I use them for really nasty or greasy cleanup - I toss them, otherwise they go in with normal wash day. It depends on how you wash the dishes and what you wash them with.

[lorna-organic]

Washing dishes is considered more eco friendly. Buying paper plates costs money, having the trash collectors pick them up costs money, too, let alone the other factors already mentioned.

[silverseeds]

I would assume they bleach the paper.... which is pretty hardcore chemicals.... not a good place to work.... (hemp is bleached with peroxide by the way, another big reason its superior for paper)

I dont have a link but washing is greener.... I have heard people say paper was better, but then heard it quickly debunked... they didnt even specify it was better with the greener soaps which would make it all the better.

[Painted Goat]

I have always been for the washing and funny enough I'm ususally the ones with my hands in the water while she stands around complaining about it determined to prove it isn't eco-friendly. I'm starting to think the lack of studies is due to the fact that paper plate makers have no interest in labeling themselves as bad for the enviroment :)

[Emerald]

I think that it is about the same almost- just think about if they have to pay for their water usage and sewage. Yes it is less stuff in landfills but they still are using up water and soap that kind of thing- but I prefer to eat from plates not paper or plastic. But then I do not do dishes, my son and hubby do.:D
But if you have the plates already then it stands to reason that it would be cheaper to go with what you already have. I think she just doesn't want to end up doing the dishes. It could also be a time thing- she doesn't want to wait for who ever is doing the dishes to finish.
So many times (here and home and when shopping etc...)folks talk about how much time is saved by pre packed foods and paper plates, or how hard it is to read thru stuff, or how far they have to walk...etc...
I think when we started making stuff to "make our day easier" we kinda screwed ourselves. Why when I told the Dr. that I make much of our breads and tortillas and other basics due to it being healthier and tastier, he just looked at hubby and I like we were nuts and said-why go to so much trouble? Why bother? For a Dr. he just needs to get some stuff straight- his idea of nutrition is dumping stuff out of pre-made boxes from the freezer section!:eek:
I can understand make some things easier- like cleaning and stuff, but have we really helped ourselves? The neighbor won't even use a freaking shovel or broom- he has his little handy electric or gas driven "toys" to use instead- like I want to hear that noisy little contraption every day! He even gets up on his roof once or twice a week to blow off leaves and such. I personally think it is because his wife is kinda caustic to be around and that he just finds any excuse to be away from her! but that is besides the point.
Well you kind get the drift.
Also in your church group have you talked them into recycling all the paper programs? MY MIL's church used to just throw them away each week, I noticed and mentioned that it was surly a waste to do this when they have a recycling box outside in the their parking lot! so now there is a big box right at the doors for all the programs and they get recycled.. So many little things that could be done really do add up in the end.

[Painted Goat]

I belong to a UU church and we have a VERY active recycling program. We recycle everthing we can including all the paper and cans. The woman in question really just gets annoyed for no reason if you ask me. She doesn't do the dishes and she isn't asked to and she doesn't have to wait until we are finished. We have them and I believe we should use them.

[Emerald]

I belong to a UU church and we have a VERY active recycling program. We recycle everything we can including all the paper and cans. The woman in question really just gets annoyed for no reason if you ask me. She doesn't do the dishes and she isn't asked to and she doesn't have to wait until we are finished. We have them and I believe we should use them.

She sounds like someone who needs a bit more attention- try giving her an "important" *job to do in the church and you might find that she will stop carping on the dishes thing. But ya know you're gonna find one of them in every crowd and if you start giving her more to do, she will tend to shut up and stop bringing attention to her self... I have seen it happen more than once in our social club. But then I have seen it backfire and I ended up having to spend more time with one of the ladies!:o At least we got more work out of her!;)
* like making it her job to wrangle some of the young teens into "clean the parking lot duty every week" or let her organize the "adopt part of the highway" like they do here and twice a year our local groups that have adopted part of the road have to go and clean it! Give her a different look at paper waste and how it affects our environment.

[puttgirl]

I've wondered about that too, I always thought washing would be better, but now I keep reading how universities are going to all paper to save money and also be more green. They claim too many trays are stolen and they waste way too much water. Some restaurants are trying to do away with washing dishes to conserve water.

[lumina]

I would say washing them is more eco-friendly. But, if you live anywhere where water is REALLY scarce (the SWest), I would say paper is probably better - and they make great fire starters. Buy the thin ones & get the paper plate supports (whatever you call those). :)

It's a lot easier to find green dish-washing liquid now --- get it while it's on sale and it can be cheaper than others. I've heard that even the "ORANGE" cleaners are a bit toxic, supposed to go w/ the coconut based products. ?? :)

[ovenbird]

It makes me crazy that church has nice Corelle dishes and a pretty good dish washer, and they NEVER use these but opt for

:eek::eek: FOAM PLATES :eek::eek:

I have offered to be the one to wash dishes at every dinner, and yet they serve up on disposables.

[tughillcam]

landfill paper plates ?
that's just weird from where I'm standing ;)

[Eccentric Follies]

It takes a lot of water to make paper plates And have you ever been down wind of a paper plant? :eek: Not to mention what it takes to treat the water after it's been used. Regular household wastewater is waaaayyy easier to treat than any industrial waste.

Plastics make me crazy. It's made from oil. The same kind that is made into gasoline. i shudder to think that it will come down to having our conveniences or fuel for our vehicles and to keep warm with.

But then, maybe i'm just a crazy old lady who's sufferin' from cabin fever. :D

[FritzDaKat]

Well, I'd say that it's more than opinion ( :D ) to state that it's impossible to make paper plates without contributing to deforestation / the cutting down of trees etc. Unless of course you go with a brand using 100% recycled materials which wouldn't be so bad aside from the fact that most of them use the anti-environmental approach of bleach and whatnot to kill off pathogens and give the paper that all so familiar pristine-white color, but perhaps there are companies using stuff similar to oxy-wash now which is Hydrogen peroxide based and much more environmentally sound, but you'll have to do the foot work on finding out if anyone is as yet.

[FritzDaKat]

[FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"]She sounds like someone who needs a bit more attention- try giving her an "important"[COLOR="Red"] *job to do in the church and you might find that she will stop carping on the dishes thing.

And,,, if that dont' work you can always spike her coffee or Kook Aid with Jim Beam & that should shut her mouth nicely. :D

[lorna-organic]

Used paper plates will attract insect and rodent pests, unless gotten off the premises immediately. Paper plates are flimsy, therefore, can be extremely dangerous when serving hot food.

[blackberrygrl]

Washing dishes! I use two sinks full of water with a natural dish soap and a scrubbie that I knit.

[MICoastieMom]

Finding any information that focused on your particular situation was difficult. This is a round about way to go, but the best I could find was paper plates vs. dishwashers and handwashing vs dishwashers.

These tidbits are what I gleened from these articles:

Paper plates are 'greener' than plastic plates. Plastic plates are petroleum based, not a renewable resource, and they are not biodegradable. Paper plates are flimsy to use, still clog the landfills, but at least they are made from a renewable resource.

I do not buy into the whole arguement that not using paper plates saves trees. Those trees are going to be cut. The job of a forester is the same as that of a farmer growing his crops. You harvest at the optimum time. The forest and the eco-system need that re-growth to sustain itself.

Producing paper plates and ceramic plates both use water and caustic chemicals as well as the resources (ie. gasoline) to transport them to their destination. The per plate cost of paper plates is considerably less; however, you need to factor into the equation the lifespan of the plate. When you consider the thousands of times that a ceramic plate can be reused (and that you have a one time delivery cost) vs. the one time use of paper the cost goes down dramatically.

For washing an average load of dishes, most dishwashers use less than handwashing. Some of new EnergyStar models use as little as 5 gallons of water, even older models only use 10 to 15 gallons. This really surprised me, the average person doing the average load of dishes, can use up to 20 gallons of water. There are some very frugal dishwashers who use the Asian method, a small bowl of hot soapy water instead of filling the sink.

The biggest issue with dishwashers is the amount of energy used in the drying cycle, which can be rectified by shutting off the machine, propping open the door and letting the dishes airdry. (Just as an aside, regardless of how the dishes were washed, did you know that airdrying is more sanitary than using a towel?)

All good arguements for buying a dishwasher, right? Don't know if your church has the resources or the space (some church kitchens are terribly small) for a dishwasher, but here is the rub. If your church does any kind of outreach involving food; ie providing meals to shut-ins, soup kitchen for the homeless, snacks and lunches for a daycare, depending on your local health code, the kitchen becomes subject to health department inspections. Twice, in two different counties, I have belonged to congregations that were upgrading their kitchens. Both times they were considering a dishwasher as part of the upgrade. Both times they were told that any dishwasher would have to be of commercial grade. Have you ever seen a commercial dishwasher? Huge, ugly monstrosities that are not user-friendly.

The last site I listed, is for a disposable plate made from potatoes. Definitely more Earth-friendly, no idea how they would stand up typical church potluck fare; scalloped potatoes, Swedish meatballs, Swiss steak.

http://www.rodale.com/conserve-water-home

http://www.aceee.org/Consumerguide/dishwashing.htm

http://www.frugalvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51759

http://www.recyclebank.com/live-green/at-home-cat/222-qaa-the-dishwasher-vs-washing-dishes-by-hand

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=dishwash.pr_handwash_dishwash

http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/dishwashing.htm

http://www.earthshell.com/

[lumina]

Potato plates? Cool. Like those packing peanuts made of starch (those are nifty). :)

The problem w/ the idea that dishwashers use less water, is that most people rinse their dishes BEFORE they put them in the dishwasher. And many run the water constantly while doing so. Doubtful that this is taken into account in the "studies".

[MICoastieMom]

Potato plates? Cool. Like those packing peanuts made of starch (those are nifty). :)

The problem w/ the idea that dishwashers use less water, is that most people rinse their dishes BEFORE they put them in the dishwasher. And many run the water constantly while doing so. Doubtful that this is taken into account in the "studies".

Actually, they did take this into account, and suggested that best practice is to simple scrape the dishes. It is my understanding that dishwasher soap is formulated to be activated by food particles. So in effect, rinsing them prior to washing reduces the effectiveness of the soap. I do not rinse dishes, but am not above soaking something beforehand. But then I am not so OCD to be bothered by dirty dishes stacked neatly in the sink. ;)

[silverseeds]

I use 1-2 gallons for all dishes and hand washing in a day.... We got into the habit living in our RV, and having to transport in water.... We continue to do it, because we live in a arid area, and water conservation is especially important here. We also dont flush number ones, unless there is a reason.....

you would be suprised how frugal with water you can be. does take a bit more time, but not much....