SEED COMPANIES WANT TO BAN FARM-SAVED SEED

[Ohiorganic]

New from GRAIN
February 2007
http://www.grain.org/?nfg=470

SEED COMPANIES WANT TO BAN FARM-SAVED SEED

A new report from GRAIN reveals the new lobbying offensive from the global seed industry to make it a crime for farmers to save seeds for the next year's planting. This briefing traces the recent discussions within the seed industry and explores what will happen if a plant variety right becomes virtually indistinguishable from a patent.

BACKGROUND

Seed companies already have strong legal support from governments. In many countries, seed laws require farmers to use only certified seed of government-approved varieties. That seed is often available only from commercial seed companies.

A rapidly increasing number of governments also grant legal monopoly rights for commercial seed, by means of industrial patents and so-called plant variety protection (PVP). Until recently, both seed patents and PVP existed only in developed countries. But since the World Trade Organisation (WTO) was created in 1994, all member governments must provide some form of monopoly rights on seeds. There is now enormous pressure on developing countries to adopt the developed country models. Many have been persuaded to join the international PVP system, managed by UPOV (International Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants). In the past ten years, UPOV has more than doubled its membership. Most new members are developing countries.

The UPOV system was originally set up in 1961, in response to many years of lobbying by the seed industry. What the companies really wanted was to have industrial patents on seeds. Patents give absolute rights to control all uses of the seed, both for planting and for further breeding. But at the time many governments felt that patents would give industry too much power over farmers. The UPOV PVP was created as a compromise. From the beginning, it gave seed companies a monopoly on only the commercial multiplication and the marketing of seeds. Farmers remained free to save seed from their own harvest to plant in the following year, and other breeders could freely use any variety, protected or not, to develop a new one.

During the 1980s, the development of genetic engineering attracted large transnational companies from the pharmaceuticals and chemical sectors into plant breeding. With their much greater lobbying power, they began a new offensive to strengthen monopoly rights on plant breeding in developed countries. First, they got industrial patents on plants bred with genetic engineering (GE) and related techniques. This meant, in practice, that they got the absolute monopoly that conventional breeders had been refused two decades earlier.

Second, the UPOV PVP rights were radically expanded for all plant varieties, GE or conventional. Since 1991, the PVP monopoly has applied not only to seed multiplication but also to the harvest and sometimes the final product as well. The previously unlimited right for farmers to save seed for the following year's planting has been changed into an optional exception. Only if the national government allows it can farm-saved seed still be used, and a royalty has to be paid to the seed company even for seeds grown on-farm.

Third, these much stronger monopoly rights are required for membership in the WTO, as already described. This is the starting point for the new lobby offensive now being prepared by the global seed industry. The goal this time is to remove the few remaining differences between the PVP system and patents, so that companies will have an absolute monopoly over seeds all over the world, regardless of which legal system is used, for all crops and all countries.

THE REAL TARGET - FARM-SAVED SEED

Farm-saved seed will be a primary target of this offensive. At least two-thirds of the global crop area is currently planted with farm-saved seed every year. In many developing countries, it represents 80--90 per cent of all seed used, but even in developed countries it commonly accounts for a large share (30--60 per cent). If farmers were legally forced to plant all of this area with commercial seed, it could easily mean a doubling of seed industry turnover, that is, an extra US$20 billion annually -- all taken out of farmers' pockets and delivered to transnational giants such as DuPont, Bayer, Syngenta, and Monsanto.

Another key industry demand will be to restrict or eliminate the freedom to use PVP-protected varieties for breeding -- the other major difference between the UPOV system and patents. The purpose is simply to block competition. If nobody else is allowed to improve on a variety until after the term of protection -- 20 years or so -- a seed company will be able to sell the unimproved variety for a much longer period, and postpone the cost of new research. The net effect: increased profits for the PVP owner, higher seed prices and fewer new varieties for farmers.

The seed industry has every reason to fear competition from farm-saved seed and more innovative independent breeders. Even individual farmers can often match or beat the performance of commercial varieties by simple on-farm selection. With constantly stronger monopoly rights and increasing consolidation into a few giant conglomerates, seed companies have produced fewer and fewer products of value to farmers. The big strides in yield and resistance improvement were made early in the 20th century, before any monopoly rights were available on seeds. And those improvements came mainly from selecting and crossing the very best of the thousands of farmer varieties which had been developed over centuries, not from any industry-sponsored research.

The failure of commercial plant breeding has left global agriculture badly prepared for the challenges of the near future, such as climate change and the need to wean ourselves off dependence on fossil fuels. It is now time to start rolling back the monopoly privileges of the seed industry, not to strengthen them further.

================================================== =========
GRAIN, The end of farm-saved seed? Industry's wish-list for the next revision of UPOV, GRAIN Briefing, February 2007, http://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=202, available in PDF and HTML. The summary in PDF is also available on this page. Also currently available in French, and soon in Spanish.

[Canna'isseur]

The criminals are at work again....

Am I the only one that believes that lobbying should be illegal?

[bunkie]

i saw that article also in Grain, and was so disgusted by it. made me think of the farmers in Iraq who can no longer save their own seed, made manditory by the US since the war and occupation. a lot of this is the companies pushing their GMOs. too.

my first thoughts were that a person who has a small business like selling at local farmers market, etc... would do best by not registering as a business. seems like that is the only way to be able to keep saving your seed and not have to follow their new rules.

i agree that lobbying should be illegal, too Canna'isseur! we should get rid of K street (where they live in Washington), too, while we're at it!!! remember how the dems were so pleased with themselves passing a bill that cut the gifts from lobbyists? whelp, an article a couple of days ago in the NYT i think said they've found a way to get around the new law...they have 'fund' raising parties and the usual 'gifts' are now considered 'funds'...arghhhh! peace, bunkie.

[Rockhound]

Canna: I believe lobbying IS ALREADY illegal, but we'll never get anyone to enforce it. If I, as an individual were to try to bribe my rep, I'd go to jail.
Illegally influencing a vote is wrong, but "not if you don't get caught". Starting to look hopeless in Washington.

[Eric]

The criminals are at work again....

Am I the only one that believes that lobbying should be illegal?

By any sensible morality it is already illegal when its called by its rightful name: bribery. But they are the lawyers and they are the ones controlling law. Your only weapon is your vote.

Don't support career politicians. Vote a new representative in every time.

[Journey]

Actually, I don't think they should be illegal and for that matter aren't illegal at all. Just because this group got their pictures in the paper doesn't mean there isn't another group out there with more clout to sway the group the other way, but we won't hear about them because their not as "shocking". I mean this is what Public Affairs is all about. Hope no one is a Union worker here, they have tons of Lobbyists, namely the Teamsters. Should we get rid of them too? This is how policy gets changed. It seems without lobbyists the "suit dummies" in congress can't figure where they are or what they need to vote on. As for this PVP nonsense, you can just call me the seed pirate.

[Walt Gee 082543]

I'm new to the forum and this thread. Does this mean that they are trying to hijack even heirlooms and make it illegal to save our seed?
Walt

[Lavandula Girl]

Walt - it's directed primarily at farm seed. But secondarily it affects the heirloom gardener, because less heirloom seed is saved on a larger scale. PVP "protects" a variety from the open market. Supposedly this keeps it pure. The issue is that the biggest seed companies are trying very hard to create a cabal that controls all commercial farming. If that happens, it will trickle down to the little guys like you and me, because seeds we would choose to grow simply will be unavailable. Globally, it will affect the availability of variety for the food consumer.

[oldgaredneck]

sounds like it's about time for another "Boston Tea Party"...

[Canna'isseur]

Walt - it's directed primarily at farm seed. But secondarily it affects the heirloom gardener, because less heirloom seed is saved on a larger scale. PVP "protects" a variety from the open market. Supposedly this keeps it pure. The issue is that the biggest seed companies are trying very hard to create a cabal that controls all commercial farming. If that happens, it will trickle down to the little guys like you and me, because seeds we would choose to grow simply will be unavailable. Globally, it will affect the availability of variety for the food consumer.

not to mention our biggest problem: our health. If all we have is access to gmos, or gmo infested crops, we will be left with frankenfoods, laced with b.s. vaccines, and anything else they want to put into it. The health industry will be in position to milk us like cows. Not to mention all the deaths that will result from cancer and any other disease that should come about. One of the greatest crimes of the century is being done right under our very noses.....

[Journey]

Its these neat little scares that have the effect of scaring alot of people. I can just see monsatan in the next 2 months putting out a controlled study saying heirloom varieties cause cancer and the only way to combat this is by passing this bill. We have a ton of people who have no idea about it and would follow right along like sheep. These deals can become very scary very quickly. I can just see it now. How else to conform the nation than by using ** tactics and scares like so many other alleged things wrong with our country. Using the press seems to be the best way to scare lots of people. It is too bad that the majority of the people who will vote for/against this have no idea what an heirloom is. I for one have no idea (I am not a scientist) if GMO stuff causes cancer. Everything causes cancer these days.

[bunkie]

the problem wqith all this is that it is happening in other countries as we speak, where the US government is forcing the growing of GMO seed. as i mentioned before, Iraq, in their new government, (the US, Bremmer), has made it law that farmers cannot save their own seed. they have to buy what the US gov. gives them, and those are likely to be GMO. it is also happening in other third world countries. this has been posted in Grain awhile back. the problem there in lies that these countries will not be able to save heirlooms they've collected for thousands of years.

even if GMOs do not cause cancer, if they mix with our heirlooms through wind, insects, whatever, it's possible our seeds will be sterile...the imfamous terminator seeds.

how do we inform the public when our government won't even allow us to label our foods?

as far as there being lobbyists to counter the bad lobbysists, there must not be enough. it seems like the greedy corporate lobbyists are getting everything they want from Capitol Hill, including those like Halliburton, Kellogg Root and Brown, Bechtel, etc... in their desires to reap exorbitant amounts of monies from continuing the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and not fulfilling their reconstruction bids but still getting paid. sorry for the rant....peace, bunkie.

[leahlaws]

I believe we as Americans need to stand together and let our voices be heard. We do not want to continue to allow our government to take our freedoms one by one or our children we not be free. They control the class room and teach what they see fit. They only take the bribes from large corporations who only want to pad their bottom line and most Americans are to busy living a high life in some way to pay attention to what is going on. Our children have more allergies than ever, autism is on the rise and is most likely connected to the fact that the vaccines we are giving our children are the cause, and we have higher levels of cancer related deaths than ever before. Most people look at people who will speak out and say our government is corrupt as freaks, but I think those who will stand out and say our government is swiftly becoming our slavemaster are brave and loving souls.
Let's not be sheepople - people who are blindly led along as sheep - we need to educate oursleves, our neighbors, and especially our children.
Thank each and everyone of you who are trying to keep our food supplies safe and pure. We have a lot of work to do.

[EcoBerryFarm]

..this truly does sadden me.well just about everything the goverment does these days. i personally like to take solice in the fact that we all one day will get to meet our maker and alot of these cats will have some 'splanin to do. the all mighty dollar has ruined Alot of things. its gotten soooooooo freakin bad. what can we do? sure we can boycott and get squashed. we can sue and get squashed. it was said many moons ago. when the people forgo their rights to the government and not themselves we are truly ruined.

[bunkie]

not sure where to post this...peace, bunkie.

Whole Foods buys Wild Oats

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_5274162

Two of the country's largest natural foods grocers are merging.

Boulder-based Wild Oats Markets said today that it has agreed to be acquired by rival Whole Foods Market of Austin, Texas.

Whole Foods will acquire all of the outstanding common stock of Wild Oats in a cash tender offer of $18.50 per share, or approximately $565 million based on fully diluted shares, the companies said today.

Whole Foods Market will also assume Wild Oats Markets' existing net debt totaling approximately $106 million. Wild Oats spokeswoman Krista Coleman said the company was not commenting on the deal and referred all questions to Whole Foods.

Whole Foods said it would borrow to finance the deal.

Wild Oats has annual sales of about $1.2 billion and operates 110 stores in 24 states and British Columbia, Canada. Whole Foods said the acquisition would let it enter new markets and increase its presence in others.

[bunkie]

more laws controlling seed in Turkey, and they appear to be connected to the EU?! peace, bunkie.

Turkey’s new seed law

New controls, old struggles

http://www.grain.org/seedling/?id=469

In October 2006 the Turkish Grand National Assembly (parliament) passed a far-reaching law on seeds which, if it is fully implemented, will erode the farming practices of all those who work on the land: more than 35 per cent of Turkey’s population. [1] The new law is part of a drive to bring the country’s legislation into line with the European Union, which Turkey’s government hopes eventually to join.

Turkey’s Law No. 5553 is generally referred to as the seed law, but this is misleading, for its scope is far broader. The new legislation will regulate seeds, not only of field crops and vineyard and garden plants, but also of forest plant species and all propagation materials. Moreover, the law introduces a new and highly pernicious distinction between “genetic resources” and “plant varieties”. “Genetic resources” [2] are defined as both naturally found wild species and those developed by farmers from which plant breeders and scientists can extract genes with “important characteristics”. In other words, the assumption is that the original farmers, who have developed and improved seeds over millennia, are no more than suppliers of the raw material from which official breeders can produce “improved” seeds, which are considered “plant varieties” and which can then be sold (see table).

This mindset permeates the whole law: Article 1 states that the main objective behind the new legislation is to improve the quality of plant production and to restructure the seed sector. Just as in many other countries in the world that are going through similar processes, farmers’ varieties are not considered to be of good enough quality to be sold on the market – where both “good” and “quality” are defined by industrial criteria of “high productivity”. For the government, quality control in seed supply means ensuring the availability of planting material that is standard and displays constant characteristics. This leaves no room for variablity and adaptability; both of these qualities, possessed by traditional varieties, are extremely positive for farmers, yet they are turned into negatives by the government. This mentality is leading to the loss of farmers’ rich diversity of landraces and their replacement by company-developed hybrid or transgenic varieties. Already those companies represented by TURK-TED – the seed industry association of Turkey – have a commanding position in seed production.

The law is patterned on European Union (EU) seed laws, and this segregation of Turkey’s seed supply into two – one considered to be an economically viable industrial activity, while the other, made up of informal exchange among peasants under prescribed restrictions, is merely tolerated by the law – is in line with the rest of Europe. The European Commission (EC) has approved a special directive [3] to cover the second category: for “conservation varieties” – these lie outside the official seed catalogue, and will be governed by less strict marketing conditions to allow for their conservation in situ on the farm. It is clearly in the interest of the seed industry to keep these varieties alive, for they might be useful in the future.

The new law replaces the old seed law [4] and makes it compulsory for the first time to both register and certify seeds before they can be sold. The detailed criteria to be used in registration will only be known later, when the implementation rules are announced, but the general lines of the system are already clear. To be registered, a seed will have to be recorded in an official log book. The Variety Registration and Certification Centre of the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs (MARA) will conduct the variety registration trials (DUS/VCU) and provide the seed and sapling certification services, as well as cooperate with ISTA, [5] OECD [6] and UPOV. [7]..more......

[ellenr]

Leahlaws,
I really like what you said.
Why don't you run for president, so I could vote for someone who shares my values.


ellen

[GreenCap]

Yes Ellen I was thinking the same thing, I love all of you on this thread, my hub and I are considered the freaks by a few but that is ok with me, I don't need to follow the herd I believe the good Lord gave us what we need and I thank Him everyday for giving me a mind of my own, but this government of ours is really getting out of hand. The thing that kills me is people just accept what they are told, like they don't question it or anything, I actually got into an argument on another forum about the Constitution, they said it didn't really mean anything, it was just a piece of paper. Hmmm, people seem to forget that the government works FOR US, we do not work for them. If they are screwing things up it is our job to do something about it. One of my favorite quotes, you gotta stand for something or you will fall for anything.

[ghostwriter]

I know friends have always told me I live in my own little world and I probably do. I don't read newspapers, seldom listen to a radio and hardly every watch the news. My focus has always been my family and work, not much time for anything else. So I for one can honestly say that a lot of what I have been read here at this forum is news to me. By looking around me I can easily see that our government has been screwing up on many, many, many things but I never realized how bad until I came here.

[bunkie]

that's one of the key ingredients here is that our media is not reporting our government's activities to the public. one has to dig around on the internet to get the facts and a lot of people probably don't have the time.

hmmm....the comment about our Constitution just being a piece of paper was also made by our present president! i remember there being a lot of hubbub about it. peace, bunkie.

December 14, 2005

[B]Bush and the Constitution

http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp12142005.html

Doug Thompson, publisher of Capitol Hill Blue , says he's talked to three people present last month when Republican Congressional leaders met with President Bush in the Oval Office to talk about renewing the Patriot Act. That act, passed by legislators who hadn't read it, in the immediate aftermath of 9-11 (when most people were shell-shocked and lawmakers in particular disinclined to use their brains), has of course been criticized as containing unconstitutional elements. All three GOP politicians quote their president as saying: "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face! It's just a g*******d piece of paper!" ........

[holyroller]

First I heard about this with regular seed, but when farmers buy seed from Monsanto, they actually lease seed, they do not buy it and they do so under contract. They sign a contract not to save seed. It's a lot of things including greed but the topper is that farmers in 25 states have already been sued for seed saving. Their friends, family and neighbors "tattle" (they call these people the seed police) on the farmer saving seed to Monsanto, then they sue the farmer. The punishment last I checked was 1.5 million in fines and 8 months in jail. Monsanto has even sued farmers for cross pollination of their precious GMO too. Rediculous! I think they did this before others could sue them for cross pollination of their fields.

[American_Gardener]

Bunkie.. have ya heard any more news about the seed police... anything about how the plan is working in iraq.. or the EU?

I must be bored reading these old threads. Maybe we'll get some of the people who haven't been around in a while to chime back in on the subject.

I personally don't know what the answer is about PVP's. On one hand you know what my postition is on the government making laws about things they have no right to constitutonally. On the other i beleive the breeders of new varieties deserve some sort of protection so that they can be compensated for their work. Now i said new varieties.. not old heirlooms. No one has a right to go and "patent" varieties that have been around for centuries in some cases. So, i guess i beleive in some sort of regulation that prevents anyone else from marketing a new Hybrid variety or even "created heirloom" without some sort of compensation to the breeder. Otherwise where's the incentive to create new varieties if it's just like throwing em to the wind afterwards?

Anyways, not saying i understand all the rules for PVPs, just that i think breeders have a right for compensation for their work.

Now, that's just a small piece of what this thread is about, i realize that. About our government, or the EU, or any other regulating body forcing farmers to grow only certified seed. That is just wrong!!! Farmers should be allowed to grow any variety they choose and save seeds from any variety that's OP.. so long as they're not marketing the final products as seeds.. i see no reason why there should be any rules at all against em saving for themselves.

[bunkie]

Bunkie.. have ya heard any more news about the seed police... anything about how the plan is working in iraq.. or the EU?........

here's an article from March of this year about the Iraq farmers. it's not good...

Seeds fo false hope: the occupation of Iraq's farming economy

http://www.celsias.com/article/seeds-of-false-hope-the-occupation-of-iraqs-farmin/

Today is five years since the invasion of Iraq. On the fifth anniversary of the occupation in Iraq, an old piece of news must be brought to the surface; the war is rapidly destroying traditional farming practices in the area, instating a legal model that calls for a dependency on the seeds of large corporations like Monsanto. Why do I call this old news? CPA (Coalition Provisional Authority) Order 81 (PDF) outlawing the practice of seed saving was put into place in Iraq in 2004 with only a few clips of media coverage. Instead “economic restructuring” in the name of a US-mandated ‘free market’ model, advertised in the name of Iraqi prosperity, was the only news we saw hit bylines in America’s papers while Iraq’s farming economy silently collapsed under the occupation’s rule.....much more...

[countrygma]

snip. Otherwise where's the incentive to create new varieties if it's just like throwing em to the wind afterwards?

Anyways, not saying i understand all the rules for PVPs, just that i think breeders have a right for compensation for their work.

Now, that's just a small piece of what this thread is about, i realize that. About our government, or the EU, or any other regulating body forcing farmers to grow only certified seed. That is just wrong!!! Farmers should be allowed to grow any variety they choose and save seeds from any variety that's OP.. so long as they're not marketing the final products as seeds.. i see no reason why there should be any rules at all against em saving for themselves.

I have been sitting here trying to apply these "breeders rights", to other things, like cattle or horses for instance. Why should it be any different than seeds?

You buy a registered.. ie certified.. horse from a breeder.. you pay his fee and the fee to "register".. or you don't have to register.. and you have all title and can do anything you want with that animal..

You sell to people who don't want to grow their own.. if you decide to sell.. I see no difference at all .. The Monsantos of the world just have more criminal minds and are greedier than the average person IMO. Seems to me there are plenty of people who don't want to save seeds they can make their money off of and still make a decent income.

Personally, I think the things that are going on world wide that are putting the little farmers out of business are crimes.. and need to be stopped.

[Retrocon]

Good thing we are building a network already...if I just trade the seeds to my friends, how is that against the law, and how will anyone know if we are growing it all for our own consumption...ie, unless they test every backyard garden to see if the seeds are from Monsanto, they won't know. I don't plan on allowing anyone onto my property to check in any case. :D

[Retrocon]

Also...am I missing something about the breeders rights, etc? How can anyone claim ownership of nature? How can anyone claim PVP for heirloom plants? I might as well just go ahead and file a patent for the air we breathe.

[American_Gardener]

I get your point CGma... It's a hard one for me to figure out.

I was thinking more along the lines of breeders like Tom Wagner that put years of work into creating new OP types of tomatoes. What's to stop anyone, from taking all that work and then start selling seeds for his creations in their seed catalogs without giving him a penny? It just dosen't seem fair to me that way. I mean he's spent years of his life creating something and then as soon as it's released he's basically putting himself in competion with himself. Cause then anyone can sell his varieties the very next season.

It's a tough issue for me.. i can see how all the seed catalogs want to go to all hybrids now. At least that way they can protect themselves from just anyone selling the same varieties in competion with em. That is unless they reveal the parentage of em.

I think there's got to be some way that's fair. Maybe he should just start telling everyone that everything he creates are hybrids. Just so that everyone will avoid saving seeds from em thinking they'll be different.
It works ya know.. tell people something is a hybrid and right away you hear em say.. well, i can't save seeds from that one now. Maybe a little propaganda for seed breeders ain't such a bad thing.

I still don't agree with what those big corporations are trying to do though.. by applying for PVP status on old heirloom varieties. That is still just flat out wrong! They didn't even create those ones and they have no right to patent em either.

Oh well.. I guess i'll worry bout it someday when i try to release my own varieties.

Dave

[RozieDozie]

The result of all these restrictions will be a huge, untaxable, underground economy where people will trade and barter and sell to each other under the table. Instead of an illegal drug trade, there will be an illegal seed, squash, chicken and raw milk trade.

[countrygma]

I get your point CGma... It's a hard one for me to figure out.

I was thinking more along the lines of breeders like Tom Wagner that put years of work into creating new OP types of tomatoes. What's to stop anyone, from taking all that work and then start selling seeds for his creations in their seed catalogs without giving him a penny? It just dosen't seem fair to me that way. I mean he's spent years of his life creating something and then as soon as it's released he's basically putting himself in competion with himself. Cause then anyone can sell his varieties the very next season.

It's a tough issue for me.. i can see how all the seed catalogs want to go to all hybrids now. At least that way they can protect themselves from just anyone selling the same varieties in competion with em. That is unless they reveal the parentage of em.

I think there's got to be some way that's fair. Maybe he should just start telling everyone that everything he creates are hybrids. Just so that everyone will avoid saving seeds from em thinking they'll be different.
It works ya know.. tell people something is a hybrid and right away you hear em say.. well, i can't save seeds from that one now. Maybe a little propaganda for seed breeders ain't such a bad thing.

I still don't agree with what those big corporations are trying to do though.. by applying for PVP status on old heirloom varieties. That is still just flat out wrong! They didn't even create those ones and they have no right to patent em either.

Oh well.. I guess i'll worry bout it someday when i try to release my own varieties.

Dave

I don't know what the answer is either, Dave. I just know the big corporations control the lawmakers to make the laws work for their benefit and the heck with the little guy, whether he is a user of the product or a small producer.

Seems like the only real fair way is to do away with laws that control so many things and let a real "vs regulated" open market.. dictate what sells and what doesn't.

[reavilh]

My question on this subject is this. If a man patents a OP seed, would it be against the law for a grower to barter the seed, or save it and grow it again the next year?

[American_Gardener]

Yeah.. that's the only thing that i wonder about is how could a regular ole breeder have any incentive to spend their lives creating Open pollinated varieties. If just anyone else could sell their creations then that dosen't seem fair to me.

As for the farmers being banned from saving their own seeds for their own crops. That's just insane.. they should be allowed to grow whatever varieties they want and if they want to save seeds for the next year then there should be no laws against it at all... period! It might even reduce the cost of the produce when they go to sell it.. cause those seeds can run into alot of money when you grow on large scale. Course they'd probably just make a little bit more profit from their crops.. but, i see nothing wrong with that either.

The result of all these restrictions will be a huge, untaxable, underground economy where people will trade and barter and sell to each other under the table. Instead of an illegal drug trade, there will be an illegal seed, squash, chicken and raw milk trade.

You're right about that Rozie.. i'm not about to stop saving and trading seeds no matter what those large corporations tell us to do. May just have to change the way i do it though.. Maybe i'll just ask everyone first.."Are you a cop?". Then i can trade with em if they say no.

You'll definately see a citizen revolt when they start seizing the farms and bank accounts and property of anyone who's violating their restrictions. At least in this country we will... i don't think the iraqis will even get noticed.

Dave

[Imp]

Maybe i'll just ask everyone first.."Are you a cop?". Then i can trade with em if they say no.


Better to ask " Are you a law enforcement official or in any way connected with the federal government or any agencies contracted with the federal government in any way?"

Don't ask how I know this, LOL.

[Imp]

It
s not funny, but this thought does tickle my imagination a bit-

"What are you in for, buddy?"

"I was trading winter squash seed for some tomato seed and the cops busted us! Good thing they forgot to check the tires, we had alfalfa seed in there!"

[American_Gardener]

It
s not funny, but this thought does tickle my imagination a bit-

"What are you in for, buddy?"

"I was trading winter squash seed for some tomato seed and the cops busted us! Good thing they forgot to check the tires, we had alfalfa seed in there!"

LOL.. might not be right to joke about.. but it still is a funny thought. Hope it never becomes a reality. I'd probably get life for as many seeds as i got.

Dave

[Imp]

It may get bad, but imagine the dang court system- all those marigold growing, tomato seed trading , squash pollinating nasty people all hanging about right there in your own neighborhood!!! Sneaking basil in people's pots ( maybe literally, might have made some of the junkier tasting ones better in the bad ol' days!) and pans, cossetting those potatoes and skinning, yes, SKINNING those helpless peaches by using boiling water tortures!

Evil people, and you never know- they could be in yourt nieghborhood, maybe right next door...

[Retrocon]

Listen officer, it's just oregano...I swear...normal, genetically-modified oregano grown from Wal-Mart seed.