Sonic Bloom

[Gardenurse]

Has anyone here used Sonic Bloom? It is an organic nutrient spray used on leaves in combination with a certain sound frequency and causes the stomata to open. "Dan Carlson was eye-witness to a life-changing event he observed while serving the U.S. army in the Korea Demilitarized Zone. He observed how a mother deliberately crushed the legs of her 4-year-old child beneath an army truck in order to be able to receive food subsidies for her family that would otherwise have starved to death. This shocking incident made Carlson decide to single-mindedly devote the rest of his life to finding innovative and healthy ways to grow enough food to feed the planet."

His work has won him nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2001 and 2004, has won several prestigious awards and honors, and is in the Guiness Book of World records for growing one of the world's largest indoor plants, the Purple Passion plant. "Purple Passion plants normally grow about 18 inches and live 18 months. When treated with the Sonic Bloom process, Carlson’s plant grew to 1,300 feet and is still alive 25 years later."

If you use Sonic Bloom in your garden or on your houseplant, and you make a cutting or save seeds, the offspring retain the increased fruit/vegetable size and other desirable traits of the parent plant even when Sonic Bloom is not used on them. "At one time Carlson took 400 cuttings of the plant and sold them at a flea market. He put his phone number on each little pot and told people that if any of the plants died, they could call and he would gladly give them another one. Within six to seven months, he started getting a lot of calls, not about dying purple passion plants, but about purple passion plants that were now over 100 feet longs. Carlson recalls getting somewhere between 75 to 100 of these calls."

Mr. Carlson does say that Sonic Bloom is not a cure-all for plants. The spray won't fix the problem of a soil deficiency or if it is too acidic, for example. I used it in my garden last year, spraying it about once a week, played music to it every morning, even if it was for the 30 minutes before work, and had impressive results. (See my next post).

http://www.sonicbloom.com

[Gardenurse]

I read that you could put seeds in a diluted mixture of the solution, play music for 8 continuous hrs, and your plants would sprout. Always up for a good challenge and experiment, I decided to try it. I threw marigold, lettuce, bean, and mint seeds in the solution, played the music, and noticed all of the seed coats (except the mint) were cracked open and green foliage was visible after six hours of this treatment!

Word of "warning" though: I played the music in the late evening and wondered why I was still hearing chirping after I stopped the music. The sound frequency Dan uses was discovered to be the same as that of birds in the morning. What I was hearing was a tree full of birds chattering away in response to the music! I was concerned about the sound disturbing my night shift working neighbors, but I walked the perimeter of the yard and I couldn't hear it except for in the area it was directed in.

Sonic Bloom decreases water usage, increases shelf life (apples lasting for 5-6 months rather than 3-4 weeks), exponentially increases the vitamins in plants. He has grown 15ft tall tomato plants with 800 tomatoes, and African violets with 200-300 blooms (they usually have 30). There is a picture on the Sonic Bloom website of Dr. Carl Webster standing next to 16 ft tall corn with 3-4 ears/plant (oh, did I mention he is standing on a 6 ft tall ladder?!) There are many more amazing articles from journals and papers, even in the July-Aug 2002 Countryside and Small Stock Journal.

My cucumber photos are in the next post.

[Gardenurse]

Here are photos from one Sonic Bloom cucumber that filled two wide mouth Mason quart jars! :eek: The cucumber used in the photo was only for photo purposes (don't want anyone thinking I threw it in with my pickles!) Everybody told me not to bother canning this cucumber because it would be tastless, tough, or bitter. It wasn't, and I've been enjoying them all winter. :rolleyes: I planted two Straight Eight cucumber plants and canned 11 quarts, not counting the ones that were eaten fresh or given away!

[dirtundernails]

:eek: IS RIGHT!!!!!!!


I read about it, but haven't heard or seen any more about it until now.

Gosh, how long ago was that... He had just made the info public. It all made a lot of sense to me, so I'm excited that it works in the real world, too.


dun

[SunflowerMeg]

That is just too cool. I can't wait to read up further on it. I have never heard of this before. Thanks so much for sharing it!!! :)

[wilderness1989]

Gardenurse have you tried this with tomatoes and peppers? If so how did that work out?
Thanks,
John Gray

[johno]

Hey, this sounds cool. Has anyone used this stuff since the last post (3/5/06?)

[Gardenurse]

Since I did a profile edit, I don't receive updates to what I have posted, so I am sorry that I have missed Johno's post. I responded to DUN and Wilderness1989 in a PM. Here's a short recap of what I sent them.

I had a small plot that I was trying to maximize production on when I used this. I was using different treatments on each plant, and I wanted to know which method was most effective so the Sonic Bloom was used on the cucumbers only. I would absolutely use it again, I highly recommend it, and I'd love to hear/see what the results of others are.

[TastyofHasty]

Bump!

Surfing away late into the night, I ran into this Sonic Bloom idea AGAIN ... knew I'd read something about it before, and resuscitated this thread. :D Here's where I've been reading:
http://www.sonicbloom.com/secretsofsoil.htm

Whew. This man, Dan Carlson, figured out that certain SOUNDS make plant stoma (pores) open up and accept foliar feeding, resulting in Garden of Eden-like results. AND actually changing:

he was even more puzzled by his pet's (a pet plant that had outgrown its normal 2-foot size to hundreds of feet, winning him a prize in Guinness Book of World Records - ToH) growing not only the teardrop leaves characteristic of its species, but also saw-toothed ones typical of its Indian cousin Gynura sarmentosa, along with completely alien split leaves previously never seen on any purple passion plant. The sound-plus-solution treatment appeared to be strangely affecting something to do with his vine's genetic qualities even as it grew.

In a paper on his experiment submitted to his professor, Carlson presciently asked, "Does one cell of a plant genus contain all the characteristics of all the species of that genus? If not, why has my plant, grown from a Gynura aurantiaca cutting, developed leaves, over 90 percent of its length, peculiar to the Gynura sarmentosa and, at the same time, exhibited an entirely new split-leaf form? Could the combined application of nutrient and audio energy result in such rapid growth rate that the very process of evolution is condensed? Have I enabled my plant to adapt more quickly to its environment? Is this the reason for the different leaf characteristics appearing on one plant? If any of these questions can be answered 'yes,' can this knowledge be applied to other plants? Could food crops be treated to achieve more rapid growth and better adaptability to their own or alien environment?"

[Oh2fly]

I just read the article at the above link and I am speechless. I want to believe, I really do,but I need to see or read some more about this before forming an opinion. Thanks for posting this.

[redcairo]

I read all about this stuff years ago.

I even went and read a book and then a couple science studies related to music's effects on plants.

I bought the sonic bloom CD.

So, I consider nature part of God. There are probably 14 different ways to put this in a religion or philosophy name depending on how you look at it. I consider it sort of like a semi autonomously operating work of Art by Him, that is alive and interacting with me. So when I'm going to do something major in my garden, I do a brief prayer session, and then I ask God and/or Nature (they sorta blend for me a bit depending on my focus) to tell me, via simply muscle testing on myself, what the answer is. Sometimes I use dowsing, because it's an ideomotor (subconscious) response.

For reasons I don't understand, I did a whole week of in-disbelief (so I kept doing more) questions about Sonic Bloom. And every time I got in no uncertain terms that the answer on whether it would be a good thing for nature was NO. I couldn't understand why frankly. On some level, I still don't.

The only thing I can think of is, you know, we can stuff growth hormone into children and make them grow massively faster, and hit puberty and 'fruit' more prolifically.

But is this a good thing for the children? Is that the point of the life of a child? What if it's not good for plants and not the point of the life of a plant? Yes I know, I am probably getting much too tree-hugging flower-child for people here (how I manage to be a conservative on most points but also this way, is a mystery even to me).

Mind you if I needed the food to survive I wouldn't care. If I could make a plant increase its produce by 20x that would be all that would matter. But for the same reason I don't eat my cats just because the grocery prices are going up, I don't really want to force my veggies either. I mean if I wanted to, I could dump massive chems on my veggies and probably decrease bug loss and increase yield, but I don't want to do that either. And it's not really just because I don't want chemicals in my food.

It's also because I just feel that is somehow morally inappropriate. I consider gardening a "joint venture with nature", not a me-the-tyrant imposing my will upon a responsive set of life forms. I think gardening is a beautiful thing. I think that I am honoring a plant by eating its fruit and honoring the fruit by making it a part of me, but also, that I am greatly honored that this plant and this fruit is sharing itself with me, and its contribution to the larger me. How much more intimate can something get? To me that's a relationship of sorts. So I don't feel inclined to "manipulate it to the extreme" to get a higher yield. I don't mind "influencing" it to some degree, but there is a difference between providing what you think something needs to be healthy, so it will do well, vs. overdosing it with something that will cause a sort of hyper-growth.

Hmmn. I'm not sure where I'm going with this. I'm not really against Sonic Bloom, I consider it quite amazing.

The theory is actually pretty simple:

In the morning and apparently in response to bird song, the stomata of the leaves opens up and as a result, the plant can absorb vastly more nutrients than at any other time. Sonic Bloom just artificially creates/extends that period and then adds a megadose of nutrients during those times as well. So it is the equivalent of dosing with growth hormones, so instead of growing at their own rate, they grow at a vastly accelerated rate.

To me the most fascinating use (and if I had land, the one most likely to inspire me) is using it to make long term trees (like black walnut) that sell for tons of money, grow in a fraction of the time.

PJ

[Gardenweaver]

Redcairo, I'm guessing you're familiar with the books by Machaelle Small Wright? If not, I strongly recommend them to you! I share your beliefs about Nature being a part of God, and I also do the muscle testing. I've been slowly implementing the techniques from M. Wright's garden workbooks into my own garden.

I've also been getting from muscle testing that sonic bloom is inappropriate for my own garden, but that it's not a bad thing in itself. It's increasing some people's awareness of the impact of sound and other vibrational energies on health, as well as the interconnectedness of the various organisms in the environment. Also, it's an excellent alternative to all the scary GMO's and chemicals in use. But it also creates a deliberate imbalance in the plants, as you pointed out in your post, and is therefore not compatible with my personal goal of a balanced ecosystem in my backyard.

Using sound for healing and plant growth, on the other hand, is a great thing for anyone. The sonic bloom article mentioned using ragas, and I did get from the muscle testing that playing ragas more often would be good for both me and my plants! :)

[Canada mike]

Gardenurse:

Sonic bloom does work, i tried it eons ago, but lost the cassette. a lot of folks use the sound with seaweed because the fertilizer is expensive. If you can afford it, go for it. I was considering ordering some again this year. The results they boast are true, although I have not seen their site for years.

This is no magic however, but very good science. Carlson got his inspiration from 2 Ottawa scientist, who experimented with sound and plants. They noted that when playing classical music, wheat fields could produce 40% more, especially with Bach. It is the wavelenghts of the violins that was most effective. Carlson isolated the wavelength, then worked for years on the recipe. I know it includes seaweed, peroxide and natural gibberellic accid, along with some almost esotheric components.

But I saw it with my own eyes, this is the closest there is to pure magic...

But that cuke picture is just to impress the gallery, anybody can grow a cuke like that. A big variety, an overgrown cuke and voilà!! Try Long Island Improved!

[redcairo]

I had a friend who was really into light-color therapy theory. I was a little skeptical about this, politely of course. He sent me a bunch of books, and a light and a bunch of specific color (a real exact # in some manufacturer, just 'any shade' won't really do) panels.

One of the books was a court transcript from the 1930's. It oughtta be required reading for law students just to see how far we have come. This guy gets prosecuted for daring to say that using color and color-light in healing has benefit. The case against him to begin with failed entirely. So the judge basically says, well ok, obviously you're not guilty of that, so we'll have to look at this other thing. This went on and on. It was like the judge personally invented several new charges and completely different ways of approaching prosecuting the guy. And the guy STILL won the case, despite all that.

One of the leading witnesses for the defense was the Chief Surgeon at a large hospital in New York I think it was. (I am bad at details memory, good at concepts, sorry.) She not only had testimony, she had PHOTOS. It was amazing! True story:

On her day off, they bring in a 14 year old girl burned over 80% of her body in a house fire. Now back in those days even half that much burn would kill you for sure. There is nothing that could be done for her so literally, they drop a sheet over her, wheel her into the hall and leave her there. It was a busy hospital, this was the 30's -- anyway.

So the surgeon comes in and sees this kid and figures, this is the chance. This kid is going to die shortly anyway. This kid is doomed. There is no treatment in medicine that can help this kid, nothing I can do. So -- why not try the light-color therapy I've been studying? If she responds at all, even if she dies, it would suggest there is something very solid to it.

So she and a nurse instantly kick it in. Now the thing that kills burn patients first is that they can't urinate (due to the effect on the organs). She describes for the court what she did, according to this color therapy, and what happened: the girl was finally able to, after maybe 8 hours of intense yellow light focused on her torso and lemonade. She describes the other things she did, and how the case went. and then she shows the pics of the girl -- she healed. She not only lived, she HEALED, unlike even modern burn patients 70 years later who are left with disfiguring scars.

The surgeon got in trouble with the hospital for standing up for the guy though and for her "unconventional" approach. Although she retired in good graces officially, she was basically forced out by the board.

So I didn't know what to do with the light stuff and I put it away.

About six months later, when I was really poor, just going into a four day holiday weekend, my cat katrina, a white female who was about 5 years old then, barely managed to drag herself into the house. I could only guess, after awhile, that maybe she had drank something poisonous like licked up some antifreeze or something, but not-quite-enough to kill her quickly. She seemed like she was dying, she couldn't eat, drink, or go to the bathroom. She could barely move, it obviously required great effort. She'd been gone for about 24 hours and somehow managed to come back seeming skinnier. Who knows, maybe she'd been barfing.

Anyway, I was frantic. I had zero money. The vets were gone anyway. I didn't even know what was wrong for sure. There was just nothing I could do for her, I told my friend by phone. And saying that, reminded me of that surgeon. I went and dragged out the light and the color panels my friend had sent me, and I set up the light (the kind that is a spotlight, with a tall stand) so it pointed right at a spot on the middle of the bed.

I finally found the book he'd sent that had the various color advice. I put Katrina on the bed right in the light. I really didn't know what to do for sure so I started with green as it recommended, and then went to another. After the other (I can't remember what, I think blue) had been on her maybe 3 minutes, she laboriously dragged herself just outside the spotlight. I ran over and went the opposite direction instead on the spectrum, put a different color in, and she dragged herself back into it. For three days and nights, I watched her, and when she would drag herself out of a color, I would either go back to green or go to the other side of the spectrum.

By the evening of day 2 she finally went to the bathroom (I have no idea why she didn't seem to be able to until then, it's not a problem I've ever noticed a cat having personally), and by day 3, now quite skinny (cats lose weight fast!), she was willing to eat and drink a little. By day 4 she could walk around and eat normally.

Now, I know that it would be fair to say, "Maybe she would have got better anyway." Maybe.

But here's the thing that really stuck with me. It was so ODD how not only she but even my other cat that was her friend and hung with her, just seemed so obviously "aware" of the light and its different colors. I mean over the course of days this was simply so obvious, that I felt like a total idiot eventually because I don't know that I would be able to tell if something was hurting or helping based on light.

That guy, whose name I don't remember but I can look it up if someone wants, was one of many people from the 20s to the early 40s that were basically destroyed by the growing more organized AMA/FDA which rather than merely trying to protect the populace, instead seemed to see anybody not from their organization and approach as the Infidel.

You'd be amazed at some of the stuff that has really happened here in our own country. Courts actually authorizing mass book burnings, FDA guys taking sledgehammers to offices and equipment, and more. Even famous, well funded, well credentialed, respected people like Rife, who invented the darkfield microscope (in the Smithsonian as a hero), who you would never have thought could be touched, they had so much media and so many medical people working with them and so on -- most these people in one way or another were driven literally to jail, death or both, for daring to actually cure something, and in a way the average person could use or buy for healing, rather than become eternally dependent on the priesthood of allopathic medicine and indefinite funding for pharmaceuticals. People today have never heard of them -- they killed it well. The history is kind of depressing.

Anyway, I haven't really had any other 'need' for the light to try it, but I would really love to do some actual experiments along those lines.

MSW -- yes, I know of her. I was once in a bookstore, a zillion years ago, and saw a book with the title, "Behaving as if the God in All Life Matters." I was so impressed by the title I bought the book, not even knowing what it was about. After that I bought her first Gardening book. I actually was familiar with muscle testing etc. prior to that but I had never considered using it for something like gardening. I usually used it when I wanted to talk to God and didn't have time to wait for an answer in the normal, gut-feeling or events-happen way. ;-)

The ragas are supposed to be something special. I don't know much about that but find it interesting. I think in an alternate life I might like to have studied acoustic physics as that's one of my big interests.

Best,
PJ

[redcairo]

The story of Sonic Bloom used to be on a couple websites, and then it vanished. I wondered if there was some reason. I thought it was fascinating.

I thought maybe because thought was involved and they felt the psychic (or prayer, depending on how you want to look at it) component would turn people off the product.

PJ

[Canada mike]

It is not psychic at all. It is simple pure water that is turned and counterturned ad nauseam.It does something like ionising the molecules, I don't remember well. There is a guy in Flagstaff who owns a company selling that water, can't remember the name. A friend of mine was at one of Carson's conference, in the years he had to play the travelling salesman for his concept, and everybody was wondering about the secret ingredients in the mix. When Peter mentionned that Flagstaff water, Carson's face went red...It is fuzzy in my memory, but if I could put my hands on the book Secrets of the soil, the missing pieces would come back.

As for the the effect of the sound, it mimicates singing birds in the early morning. They discovered that it stimulates the opening of the stomatas, the little mouths found mostly on the underside of the leaves making easier the intake of the foliar feed, hardly any magic, if plants can depend on insects, why not on birds too?
These discoveries were not his, but some Ottawa University researchers. He just had the nevertheless brilliant intuition to pursue it further .

It is foliar feeding meeting great science, as simple, as that. The results of simple foliar feeding with seaweed, the major component of the recipe, are also fantastic, albeit less spectacular.

I think only a peson having really practised foliar feeding can fully appreciate the true greatness of SONIC BLOOM, for that person has seen how the limits of foliar feeding have been pushed away by it. A lot of the others will see magic where there is none, and be oblivious to the fact that there is a new frontier in the foliar feeding world, and THAT, in itself, is great.

I simply mean that 70% of the results are due to foliar feeding, but the other 30 are mind buggling!

If your garden was an athlete, lets pretend he would be excellent at the state level. Foliar feeding would make him good at a national level, Sonic Bloom would send him to the olympics and come back with the gold.

But it is only science...

[Canada mike]

I just checked SONIC BLOOM site. They are far less secretive about the components that they were 15 years ago. We all had figure out the seaweed, any nose with clear sinuses can do it, and the giberellic acid. They talked about having reduced the surface tension of the water in the mix, if I remember well this is what that special water does, all that by being invisible in the mix, neat! Peroxyde is probably there too.
I could not access the store, but kits are up for grabs. I'll get one and alternate sonic bloom with seaweed.


The trees that bear after 2 years instead of 7 is a true story, my friend grew over 400 apple varieties and used it. The nut trees he also grew were producing at such a young age and small size!

[redcairo]

I don't think you don't know what part I was talking about Mike. Of course the basic stuff is not psychic, nothing to do with that. The part of the 'story' of sonic bloom as far as the sound and chemicals go is still public. But there was a whole lot of other stuff that was connected to his endless flowering vine story, about he and his daughter and "telling" the plants which color flower to bloom around their rooms and so on, which vanished off the internet. No big deal to me, I found it equally fascinating and no less believable, given my belief system has room for that. Best, PJ

[redcairo]

They talked about having reduced the surface tension of the water in the mix

Some time ago I bought these "magnetic laundry balls". Allegedly, the point of chemical soap is to reduce the surface tension of water so it will penetrate the weave of the fabrics and hence carry out impurities. Magnetics can do this just as well as soap (affect the surface tension of the water), but without chemicals.

My housekeeper used them for awhile at my request, but she said the problem was that while the clothes seemed to get clean enough, "smell" was still an issue in some cases and it didn't seem to remove that as well.

I'm willing to bet that kind of tech could be used to lower the surface tension of any formula. You can probably google for that product.

Best,
PJ

[redcairo]

I have the book "Secrets of the Soil". Tell me what you're looking for.

Are you sure you are not mixing up Sonic Bloom and the spiritual-derived "formulas" of biodynamics, the vortex mix etc.? Sonic Bloom wasn't related to that far as I recall although I'm sure they could be used together.

PS I liked "The Secret Life of Plants" a bit more, but I think both those books oughtta be required reading just for "food for thought".

Best,
PJ

[Canada mike]

REdcairo:

[Canada mike]

Sorry RedC, I pushed a button.

I hadn't read the rest of the post. You are right, I remember that story about the plant changing and the relation established between it and the people in the '' spiritual realm''. It was part of the whole mystery about it.

And yes, the vortex thing is the one I am talking about. In one of the 2 books we are discussing ( secret life of...), there is the story of the Flagstaff guy and his water. That is exactly what Peter suggested when his face changed color. Peter was sure he had hit a cord. He later started a small business selling the same kind of water, but he was more of a romantic than a business man :D

Its hard to make money selling 2 ounces of water gor 15$. The crowd of convinced people is fairly reduced.

I have both books, they are in a box in the basement, I will move this spring, we are getting ready... I loved them both, but ''the soil'' was my favorite at the time, I was building up mine. Today, it could very well be the other...

Gheez, you are bringing me back in time!!! I must take them out and reread them.

And I am gonna buy sonic bloom. It is such a great product. Back to my roots!!

Thanks for bringing me back home...

Michel

[NWL]

After reading about it, I think that I'll buy the Sonic Bloom CD, but not their foliar spray. Looks way too pricy. I was thinking about using a mix I have used in the past with good results.

If anyone is interested, here's the recipe:

1 part MegaGro (made from concentrate)
1 part Algoflash (made from concentrate)
1 part Fish Emulsion (made from concentrate)
1 part 3% Hydrogen Peroxide
1-2 drops dish detergent

Because our local tap water has chlorine added to it, we use rain or river water to mix up the concentrates, and water the plants. We have noticed that if we use tap water, the plant leaves get white burned spots.

[Canada mike]

NWL: Is that stuff organic? ( mega gro and algoflash) .

I think the first time you buy you have to get the starter kit.But I can't access the store these days, it says error....all the time or something like that.

Michel

[NWL]

I don't know if MegaGro and Algoflash are certified organic or not, but they are kosher, in case that concerns you, so they are safe to use on food crops. I'm not Jewish, though personally, I prefer kosher to organic, since kosher is concerned with the safety of the food, while organic is concerned with sprays, ferts, etc. that come from only a natural source regardless of safety. I have personally seen a certified organic farmer put raw uncomposted manure between potato rows 1-2 weeks before harvest. It seems to me that e. coli covered potatoes is apparently considered organic, but it definitely wouldn't be kosher.

MegaGro is a solution of gibberellins, including gibberelic acid. I don't know if gibberellins can be made in a lab, but I do know that they are naturally produced in certain plants, fungi and bacteria.

Algoflash is a mixture of minerals, including trace minerals that most plants need.

Individual Sonic Bloom CDs ($15 ea.):
http://ecomvault.com/shop/catalog/index.php?cPath=8

[TastyofHasty]

Just re-read the article about Sonic Bloom; another thing they mention (last few paragraphs) is a man who uses microbes to actually change what is in the soil into things the plants need. That reminded me of a previous thread here on iDig called "Compost Teas," in which a recipe was posted for "Bug Juice," on this webpage:
http://grouppekurosawa.com/organic1print.htm

This is what you need in order to make Bug Juice™.
One 5 gallon bucket.
Corn starch
Bread yeast
MaxGro™ our fishmeal product, or another source of protein. Blood meal will work.
Ripe fruit, such as plums, apples, apricots, peaches, watermelons, peeled bananas or whatever. No citrus.
The Bug Juice™ Formula
Fruit: The fruits mentioned above contain sucrose, proteins, various vitamins and other nutrients, easily digestible cellulose and pectin. They are the perfect food for soil microorganisms. Pit the fruit, and smash it so it can be more rapidly digested by microorganisms. It should be mush. Add 1 pound or so to the bucket. Decaying fruit that has fallen off a tree is the best. Just save it for making Bug Juice™.
Cornstarch: Starch is present in all organic matter as a form of storage energy. Bugs need to degrade it in the soil in order to obtain a carbon source for their metabolism. Add 5 tablespoons to the bucket.
MaxGro™ or blood meal: MaxGro™ is a heat sterilized fishmeal that has a high nutrient and growth promoting value for plants and microorganisms. It is the protein source for the bugs and the source of biochemical building blocks for the auxin and cytokinin plant growth hormones. Blood meal is a poor substitute, but it is more readily available. Add 5 tablespoons to the bucket.
Yeast: Yeast is a cheap source of B vitamins. It is also a source of cytokinins and protein. Mix two teaspoons of yeast, two teaspoons of sugar and one teaspoon of bread flour to 2 cups of warm water. When the yeast stops foaming, it has consumed most of the sugar. Add 2 tablespoons of corn starch, 1 tablespoon of bread flour and allow the mixture to sit for 2 hours. You are adapting the yeast to the starch. This is important. In order to break down starch, the yeast must be induced to secrete the enzyme alpha amylase. You want to promote this reaction. Most sugars in the soil are in the form of starch—not sucrose.
You have now mixed the ingredients, a handful of good compost and added water. Mix periodically to aerate the mix and leave the bucket in the sun. After one week, start applying the Bug Juice™ to the compost or table scraps you have collected, or directly to poor soil. Bug Juice™ can be directly applied to plants, trees, grass, whatever. It is disgusting to look at, but it is a powerful organic “nutrient soup” for the soil. And you made it. You are now officially a backyard scientist.

And that part about the morning glories having pink flowers around his daughter's window, and purple ones around Dan Carlson's window was really amazing.

BTW, they DID mention certain melodies that work:

the first movement of Antonio Lucio Vivaldi's The Seasons, appropriately called "Spring."

Bach's E-major concerto for violin

from 6,000 to 12,000 cycles per second or cps

the resonant frequency of mitochondria is 25 cps, which, if interpolated upward gets to a harmonic of 5,000 cps

Bach, 1920s jazz, or the Indiana strains of Ravi Shankar's sitar

[johno]

Reading this thread, I can't help but associate the playing of certain music to improve plants' health with the following short video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWmWWqm1hFs&NR=1

For those of you who can't watch the video, Masaru Emoto experimented with giving pleasant and unpleasant "vibes" to water, then examining the structure of the water crystals that formed as the water from the experiments cooled. Bad vibes made ugly crystals, good vibes made pretty crystals...

As far as I know, no one has tried to duplicate these experiments, so just consider it food for thought.

[Canada mike]

Wow johno, you blasted me...I hope you have read ''secrets of the soil'', if not, put your hands on it. There is mind-blowing scientific and spiritual stuff in the book. The follow-up is ''Secrets of the plants'', and it is equally great...

By the way, I ordered 2 packs of Haogen melons. PM me and I'll send you some...

Michel

AND EVERYBODY:GO TO THE YOUTUBE LINK !!!

[TastyofHasty]

Yes, to add to the "my neighbors must think I'm nuts list," :D they're going to love it when the strains of Ravi Shankar and Vivaldi's "Spring" play OVER and OVER and OVER kinda loud around here ... :D

Johno, it's true ... there are more things in the world than you thought, Horatio ... or whatever that quote was ... I remember reading about that water crystal thing. Whew. Hey, my SIGNATURE is RIGHT!

[winter_unfazed]

I read about it in the Creation Illustrated magazine. Carlson is a Creationist scientist, and expounded on the creation of plants and how they were designed to take in minerals.

[redcairo]

Vivaldi, Bach, 1920's jazz -- geez I think that might make people grow never mind plants. :-)

I find all the plant stuff just fascinating. 'The Secret Life of Plants' completely blew my mind, a zillion years ago when it first came out and I read it. That was long before I did any kind of gardening. Now that I actually do grow stuff, I find it even more interesting. I wish more funded research was done on this kind of thing.

PJ

[johno]

I read The Secret Life Of Plants back in college. It was thought-provoking. It has been proven that trees communicate with each other - when one tree gets infested the rest of them in the vicinity start showing an immune response to the attacker. I always was a little mischevious, so I related this information to my genius friend who didn't eat anything with a central nervous system...

Back to the Emoto experiment; it wasn't just music that produced the beautiful crystals, it was intent - blessings by a buddhist monk also made them, as did simply sticking labels of good thoughts on the water bottle. Conversly, he labeled some bottles "Adolf Hitler," or "You make me sick. I will kill you" and those crystals didn't even look like regular water crystals, they looked like amoebas or something gross.

Like I said before, no one I'm aware of has tried to repeat the experiments, so you can't really take it as science, just food for thought.

I think I might try this idea in the garden this year - got nothing to lose... The plan is to set up primitive drip systems (bucket with a hole, or a buried terra cotta pot...) and label some of them with good thoughts, some with bad, and some unlabeled. Ideally they should all be supporting clones from one plant, and all have identical soil... we'll see about that.

[redcairo]

I read a book written by a preacher who had done a 'power of prayer' experimental series with plants.

Some of his protocol was flawed in places from a science perspective of today, but on the whole he was earnest and serious about it and it was interesting.

Not surprisingly, the book was debunked, insulted, and flayed in every way possible before it had been out 5 minutes. :-)

I think he actually was onto something but unfortunately, due to his mental model, limited in what his original concept included, which makes sense.

I believe that humans interact with our world in ways that are not just about talking, and that "intent" is part of that. I believe that intent is "exponential, not additional" (or to put it in the prayer context, when two or more are gathered in the name).

But in my experience, intent is 'true'. What I mean by this is, you can't lie with your intent, only with your words. If you openly pray for one thing but inside you have some kind of reservation about it or guilt about it or whatever, I think that affects the 'intent'. I think it is highly unlikely that the group of people in his experiments could very sincerely want an innocent plant to die, not to mention I suspect that at least some of them had some guilt about the praying to god to kill something. (Just try it. Praying to god for something bad, I mean. It's difficult, at best. We intuitively know in our gut it is inappropriate.) For this reason, I think he had a built in problem with the comparison between the plants prayed for to live, and those prayed for to die.

Secondly, because I believe that attention is a form of energy that in a physics sense, is constantly transferred and feeding whatever it's directed toward/into (you "pay" attention, quite literally), in my world praying ANYTHING toward/for a plant would be contributing to its energy for growth. Now the energy may not be as ideal of that of positive prayer, but IMO it is still essentially providing energy. I think an experiment of this sort needs to be set up with an "apathy" not a "negative intent". The latter may distort what it is put toward, but the former will do the most damage by far IMO.

One of the problems of the subject as far as even layman research goes is the models people use. For example, people are willing to believe in the power of prayer, but if they hear the model above, they realize that I am talking about a fairly basic, physics-based (though currently under-measurable) norm of human ability to 'interact with' the world we are found within, not necessarily something that requires proper approaches to God and the name of Jesus in triplicate on the request. This is not because I don't jibe with those concepts or deities because I do, it's simply that I have come to believe that we are made more wonderfully than people imagine, with a great deal of ability that we normally attribute to God in part because it is so underdeveloped and ignored within ourselves, that we tend to project it upon the one true source of magic we know can do 'the impossible'.

Some people accept this and study such topics feeling it's just part of what God has created, and some people don't and relegate all of it to the occult and something negative.

So you get people who look at it from the prayer perspective, but this affects their planning, as noted above about the attention issue and how this could interfere with measured results. Or you get people who look at it purely as a psychic thing, but that has its own whole list of mental models which may be inaccurate as well.

Cleve Backster's extensive polygraph experimentation with plants is an example of some decent research done on the topic. His latest book (Primary Perception) was not really what I expected but interesting I guess. The review of his work in tSLoP (now there's a funny acronym...) was a really good one I think.

One can't really do any legit (publishable) plant research without a -- geez, mental block -- a tank, basically a sort of oversized aquarium that is totally controlled in every way (light, sound, humidity, etc.) so that you can grow plants separately in 2-3 of these things, with different variables applied to each. They are really expensive though.

You can do "layman's research" on your own of course, and that's the fun kind, just for curiosity. I seriously considered making an Orgone Accumulator for water and having two same plants from same seed stock, next to each other, watered only through a bottle with holes in the soil and one watered from the Orgone container. It really wouldn't say much since you can grow two plants next to each other and get diff results and a million things could affect results in either plant or their comparisons, without that isolation tank, so I decided not to do it since I didn't think I would have any way to fairly evaluate the results.

PJ

[johno]

You're a sharp cookie.

What you say about the experiment in a bubble is true, but even within bubbles there are unseen variables. That's why they use multiples to get an sort of average. So I think, if you consider the natural environment out in an open yard a bubble (in regards to sunlight and temperature,) and you use containers of equal volume with a uniform potting medium, and all the plants are clones from one mother so that they have the same genome, and the only variable is the label on the water containers (a= positive words, b= negative words, c= blank label, all the water comes from the same source,) that the experiment can be called a controlled experiment as long as there are multiple subjects. It would be a much more valid experiment if it were repeated simultaneously in different areas around the country.

I'd actually be even more interested in doing this experiment with a=no music, b= good music, c= bad music, but where would we get all the little headphones?

[Blanesgarden]

I just read the article at the above link and I am speechless. I want to believe, I really do,but I need to see or read some more about this before forming an opinion. Thanks for posting this.

I agree with Oh2fly, anyone REALLY have any proof, or pics to share with us?
You sell me this, and Ill sell you MultiBloom!!!:cool:

[redcairo]

Funny - little headphones! ;-)

The thing about the music is, that on reading a little about it (eons past, and my memory is hazy), my conclusion was that there were two things that seemed to be most affecting the outcome:

1 - frequency (eg., the plants do not care if Vivaldi is beautiful, they care that a certain violin concerto in a certain key hits a range of frequencies they are sensitive to), and

2- percussion (eg., I think the thing with rock that is harmful is its percussive nature, probably more than plants simply not liking AC/DC).

There's been several studies done with babies and heartbeats. I find it really interesting that humans and animals appear to be so soothed by the presence of the heartbeat, which makes sense, as in nature (in an ideal situation) there is "momma's heart" there against their sleepy little heads.

I realize that plants are not humans, yet I actually wondered, odd as this sounds, how a percussion solo track vs. the percussion of a heartbeat (a real heartbeat recorded, not just that rythym), played at the same volume and intensity, would differently affect plants, if it was different at all.

In times when I've been really intensely meditating, praying etc. I find that I get a lot more sensitive to music. A few times I've literally "felt" it inside my body as if every note and changing tone were a 3D soft-string of colored light moving around inside me. Rock and pop would really bug me during those times, they would literally feel assaultive. When I'm pissed off or depressed, I tend to prefer rock at about 120 decibels, I supposed because it's so over-abrasive that it is "numbing" on some level. I think that we respond to everything more than we realize so it isn't surprising plants do too.

Oh yeah, one other thing. After reading the stuff about plants and music and noticing how the high-percussive things tended to harm the plants, I wondered what would happen if the test were done above vs. under the soil. In other words, say you put a speaker literally inside the soil in a plastic bag. Of course that dampens it but it also means that the primary 'beat' is going to be affecting the roots more than the leaves, or let us say, "the kinesthetic effect" would increase hugely on the roots and diminish greatly on the foliage.

I think it is possible that in some cases, if the beat were regular (not irregular), it might actually *increase* growth hitting the roots rather than diminish it; it's just a hunch and I'd love to see it tested. The reason is I feel that it would be a stimulation (energy) to the roots but because of the absorbing nature of the soil would not be overwhelming enough to be harmful so might actually just be a bit stimulating. Another way of putting this (for different reasons) might be that what high frequency tones do for foliage, it's possible that low frequency beats might do for roots. I have zero, nada zip none, reason to believe this. I've seen nothing even suggesting such a thing. It's just a hunch with no discernible reason for existing LOL.

Best,
PJ

[redcairo]

PS to apply your water researcher's* approach, one could add a soft real recording of a voice speaking to the roots, imagining, visualizing, praying, encouraging them to grow. :-)


* fascinating stuff, saw that a couple years ago, but you have to ask, out of half a glass of water, how does he get one crystal? How do you even define a specific crystal? What about the other billion crystals in that water? Now if this were a single crystalline drop on a glass plate or something, this would be measurable, but a cup of water, with 'the crystal' measured after? I'm crazy about the idea and alleged results and the pictures are awesome, but that's a little like planting an entire field of corn and then coming out with one ear and saying, "Look what my rain dance at the west corner did for the corn!" It might be true, but "experimenter bias" -- the subconscious or even psychic ability of an experimenter to arrange conditions (even unintentionally) so the results meet his desires, so it isn't truly random or consistent -- seemed highly possible there.

It does however tie into the whole radionics concept, as well as thought-transference and various forms of magick in general. I believe myself that 'fundamentally' that underlying concept (of thought affecting reality) has merit, but whether that research is specific and replicable I'm not sure. It's been quite a long time since that first came out and I have still seen nothing by anybody else concerning replication, which makes me wonder.

Best,
PJ

[Blanesgarden]

PJ.
Are you a musician?:cool:

[redcairo]

Yeah, as a matter of fact. My dad's been a professional lead & steel player (and singer) for about 45 years, so it was probably inspired by that. I was an extremely active guitarist, songwriter and singer until I was about 24 when my life changed fairly radically and I dropped it. (A tragedy in many ways, based on a tragedy, but never mind.) I had about 300 songs in a notebook by 18 and was a complete obsessive. ;-)

I've always felt piano would have been my first instrument though, if I'd had one to play. I try not to think about how much of my church going was probably more inspired by being able to play the pianos outside service times than a genuine love of church LOL. When I was young I could sing amazingly but had such a young voice. Now I'm 42 and finally have the voice of the soul-jazz singers I used to so admire, but I don't sing anymore really so I suck. ;-)

One thing I used to be interested in was acoustic physics. I wondered if using a synthesizer set up specially for the purpose of creating a "shape" with sound would have interesting effects. For example, you know how you (well, scientists) can make a sound into water and then photograph the 'pattern' on the water that results. Well I wondered if carefully arranged frequencies played in a certain sequence, like you could program on a computer, could sort of create a "shape" of frequency (essentially in the air or at a place it was 'pointed' at). I wondered if projecting this "shape" consistently at something like say a plant would have some effect on it. What I had in mind kind of related to the traditional assignment of energy to shapes in occultism (eg the unicursal hexagram [which btw once 'told me', in 3D-meaning somehow, 'love is the law, love under will' - proof that reading crowley will fry your brain for sure heh], the octagon, pentagram, star of david, etc. I also thought that as a variation on that simply 'archetypal shape' theme, that it would be interesting to program in the actual shape of the leaves of the plant, or some fractal based on the mathematics that that particular plant form used.

Wait, that was so much more than you wanted to know, heh. Sorry, I'm in the mood to go on apparently.

PJ

[Blanesgarden]

PJ, good read!
Im always up for musical talk, I play guitar and bass myself, just for fun now
But many moon ago...I rocked the southern Indiana, Illinois area in a few bar bands and the like!:cool:

[TastyofHasty]

Orgone Accumulator ...

Unicursal Hexagram ...

hey, interesting stuff I never heard of before, and google-able. Keep it up!

[winter_unfazed]

I have been reading the Secret Life of Plants recently, too. Very interesting!

[Canada mike]

NWL,

I would like to thank you for your recipe, and opening my eyes to megacrop and algoflash.
The only reason for megagro not to be organic would be if the giberrellins were man made instead of extracted chemically from rice or through some other chemical process involving fungus or bacterias.

Read CHEMICAL here, which means human made stuff anyway. The gibberellins are pretty simple chemical complexes akin to sugar and alcool, which means you and I could go back to the chemistry lab of our former high school and quite probably be able to synthetise them pretty easily...anyway, well equiped labs sure can ...

So is the environmental cost of harvesting, transporting and processing the rice worth the difference? And there is a chemical process of extraction anyway...

I am proudly organic, but also at cross-roads moraly with a couple of the dogmas or the chuch...for example, the paper factory where I work used sulfuric acid in a hot water bath to produce fibers from wood logs. The smokestacks of that part of the mill emitted lots of sulfuric vapor, which is bad of course, now it is a solved problem, but they ended up loaded with pure elemental sulfur that would have to be scraped and ended up in a dumpsite.

On the other hand, companies manufacturing ''organic'' fertilizers need sulfur, and they get it from mining, which as far as I know is not very environmentally friendly, and lets not forget all the pollution created by the trucks and train which would move the stuff from the U.S. to Quebec or wherever...

Its elemental sulfur anyway...so we fill dumpsites with sulfur that could mix up with any weird stuff to create dangerous compounds while we pollute to harvest and transport the same stuff to make organic stuff...

I am sure you get my drift...

I will gladly try both megagro and algoflash, and the heck with the church label of organic. Natural suits me enough.

I had just ordered a 5 year supply of organicly approved gibberellic acid though...I lost 15$ because of you, you owe me...LOL

P.S. I will had one part of alfalfa tea to your recipe for the triacanthanol, another growth hormone with surprising light frost protection effects...

Thanks

Michel

[TastyofHasty]

Well, I just watched the Emoto YouTube video, and am now going to go outside with my nice sharpie pen ... and start writing "love," "gratitude," "thanks," and "health," "wealth," and "joy" on all my water barrels and hoses. :D

[GardenGypsy]

SonicBloom does work. My brother uses it. If anyone wants more details about how it works for him, let me know and I will get some details from him.

[randycarter]

Well this is all very interesting. I read The Secret Life of Plants when it came out. The book covers many topics but one thing that they drive home is that while plants do not have a nervous system they have some type of sensory system which enables them to react to stymulus from the enviornment.

[TastyofHasty]

I'm reading it right now. Makes me look at my plants ... like they're looking back at me!:eek: Wow. I told DH about it and he kind of glanced over at the plants under the lights in our living room as I was telling him ... and then he said, "does that mean the trees KNOW if you're thinking about chopping off a limb?" ... yeah. And they remember WHO did it.

[TastyofHasty]

GardenGypsy, I'd be interested in hearing how your brother uses Sonic Bloom; when he plays the music, what music he plays, with what plants, what foliar spray he uses, and last but not least, how well it works?

[GardenGypsy]

ToH, I will get ahold of him as soon as I can and get all the info. He works nights, so we may have to be a little patient. i will post it as soon as I can. GG

[TastyofHasty]

All RIGHT!:)

[TastyofHasty]

One way Sonic Bloom could be used, even if using it GENERALLY is not "natural," would be for our baby seedlings growing inside the house, far from any bird call, to play Vivaldi's "Spring" for them in the morning, whilst spraying foliar fertilizer upon the underneaths of their little leaves. :) B'cause growing little seedlings INSIDE is not "natural," either; and perhaps the artificial "birdcall" might be more "natural" for them than NOT getting any sound at all.

Plus, it's nice to listen to for humans, too.:)

[zone4sprout]

Fascinating read. Never heard of Sonic Bloom. I'm looking forward to updates.

[ArtiPrinted]

Hello,

I used it my cacti and it made them do weird things. My friend tried it on some kind of rubber plant that like never grows and it turned bright green on the tips and had like 4 inch growths on it. It works. I called them and they had an attack on the website and shut down the store, you can still call them to place an oder.

matt

[TastyofHasty]

ArtiPrinted, what sort of weird things happened to your cacti?

Would you mind DESCRIBING the process; (I'm thinking of trying it on the cheap, and with my own "foliar spray"); I already have Vivaldi's "Spring" on a CD; so I can play the music free. From what I gather, you play the music, which includes certain frequencies that occur in natural birdsong, and those sounds trigger plants to open the stomata in their leaves; then you spray the plants while their stomata are open, on the undersides of the leaves, with a foliar feed spray. Which foliar spray did you use??? Could a "garden tea" of compost, manure, microbes, bacteria, be substituted as a foliar spray, to feed the plants when their stomata are open, do you think? HOW do you spray the plants? With a hand-held spray bottle? (Could get a bit back-breaking!) ... one of those pumped-sprayers that hold a couple gallons would probably be easier. That sort of thing ... like ... how long did you use the Sonic Bloom on your cacti?

[ArtiPrinted]

I have roots growing from places that shouldnt. I need to post a picture... the others just grew really fast. I didnt use any spray because my plants were already established. But if you use something other than what they have, it took like 20 years to get it correct they say on the sonicbloom website. if you use it on new plants without a spray your plants will grow so fast that they will fall over cause they didnt have enough nutrients to support the fast growth. When i do use the spray i use a really fine mist spray bottle.

We left the music on them when we left the house for about 6 months. Now that i have stopped playing the cacti have stopped growning once again.

[Canada mike]

Using it is as natural as planting a garden is, and using organic amendments and fertilisers. The only natural way, without human intervention, is living off wild plants and hunting...

The weird stuff can be explained if too much is used, not following prescribed dosage. It contains geberellic acid, a growth hormone, and too much of it will have the plants grow too much, hence in weird shapes. That is actually how the acid was discovered in rice, they studied plants having freak growth paterns: they were producing too much of it. With it, right dosage is of theessence. For a compulsive sprayer like me, it is better to use it accordingly then foliar spray with seaweed extract, alfalfa or compost or manure tea as much as one wants...I used to do it every 3 days in my then smaller garden, and the havest was out of this world, without any freaks!

NOTHING beats foliar feeding added to good soil, NOTHING.

[Jackie-T]

I just found this thread. I am curious if the people who have used Sonic Bloom still are? Is the seed saved from those plants any better in your opinion. I know the website claims the benifit carries over to the next generation what have you personaly found? Do the plants change ? I am thinking heritage tomatoes no longer bveing as good as they where or being different. I woulden't want my cherry tomatoes weighin about 4 ounces. or Black Brandywine being a red tomato when grown from seed that came from a plant treated this way. Is it worth the money? Where can I buy this?

[hikingonthru]

Funny - little headphones! ;-)

There's been several studies done with babies and heartbeats. I find it really interesting that humans and animals appear to be so soothed by the presence of the heartbeat, which makes sense, as in nature (in an ideal situation) there is "momma's heart" there against their sleepy little heads.

I realize that plants are not humans, yet I actually wondered, odd as this sounds, how a percussion solo track vs. the percussion of a heartbeat (a real heartbeat recorded, not just that rythym), played at the same volume and intensity, would differently affect plants, if it was different at all.PJ

Makes sense to me based on what we are told in Scriptures...remember, the task appointed to Adam to give him purpose? "Tend the garden." Originally, man and plants were made to be supportive of one another...no doubt sensitive to the doings of each other as we were intended to provide life to each other by God. Then came "sin" into the world and out of the garden we went and the whole balance of the garden was disrupted...adam & eve cast out and all. I think some of these things we see as "strange" and "metaphysical" are just glimpses into how things will be when Eden is restored to us during His 1000 year reign. Personally, I am looking forward to it!

[ArtiPrinted]

Amen!

[Canada mike]

I really, really don't need biblical lecturing in a gardning site, even as a church going christian.
Brain dead creationism, created by a trend in christianism that stays far away from the teaching of Jesus to lose itself in the old testament, the same one Jesus came to replace with a new truth, is not coherent with gardening and tending to heirlooms, as we are, by creating them, proving the theory of evolution , acting on selected variables as does the environment...

And I hate talking faith with deaf people anyway...

[ArtiPrinted]

Mike, If you are a Christian that has more faith in evolution than creationism you have lots of issues. Evolution is 1 chance in 10 to the 10th to the 123rd power. 1 chance in 10 to the 50th power is considered impossible. 10 to the 78th power is how many atoms are belived to be in the known universe.
http://www.faizani.com/news/news_2003/math_impossibility.html
Please do not ruin out topic. This is not the place to discuss such things, we are talking about sonicbloom. Thanks.

[Canada mike]

Honest to God,I'd rather be an homosexual immoral, liberal devil worshipper than being a creationist. I'd be an idiot ( bot because of homosexuality of course) and an offense to creationism, but at least by declaring myself an ennemy of God, I would not be denying the splendor of his always evoluting masterpiece, and who know what his plans are and if by creating man at his immage he was not talking about DNA AND evolutiou.

As opposed to creationists, I never met him in an elevator. nor decided He would be made at my image, mainly white american from the south,AND I SERIOUSLY DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND but express my own outrage.

[jenfur]

Honest to God,I'd rather be an homosexual immoral, liberal devil worshipper than being a creationist. I'd be an idiot ( bot because of homosexuality of course) and an offense to creationism, but at least by declaring myself an ennemy of God, I would not be denying the splendor of his always evoluting masterpiece, and who know what his plans are and if by creating man at his immage he was not talking about DNA AND evolutiou.

As opposed to creationists, I never met him in an elevator. nor decided He would be made at my image, mainly white american from the south,AND I SERIOUSLY DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND but express my own outrage.

You know, I sure didn't want to read the things you said on a gardening post either. I am a creationist and I have very good reasons for being one. No one is asking you to be, so why the attacks? Neither creationism or evolution can be proven in a scientific manner. We must just weigh the data and see which theory has more support. I choose creationism because that is what the scientific data tells me, it is what it is, but you may interpret it differently. I actually took a creation science course in college last year and it was really astounding. Anyway, no need to be so outraged! Its not good for your plants;)

[jenfur]

Makes sense to me based on what we are told in Scriptures...remember, the task appointed to Adam to give him purpose? "Tend the garden." Originally, man and plants were made to be supportive of one another...no doubt sensitive to the doings of each other as we were intended to provide life to each other by God. Then came "sin" into the world and out of the garden we went and the whole balance of the garden was disrupted...adam & eve cast out and all. I think some of these things we see as "strange" and "metaphysical" are just glimpses into how things will be when Eden is restored to us during His 1000 year reign. Personally, I am looking forward to it!

I thought of this when read about the guys plant exhibiting all the charateristics of the plants species. My teacher in Creation science explained that every organism has within it a certain range of variability. There is no real macroevolution, but rather microevolution through expressed traits that were already present. This can be clearly seen in dogs an their wide range of variability. If true, this is further evidence.

[johno]

Mike, If you are a Christian that has more faith in evolution than creationism you have lots of issues. Evolution is 1 chance in 10 to the 10th to the 123rd power. 1 chance in 10 to the 50th power is considered impossible. 10 to the 78th power is how many atoms are belived to be in the known universe.
http://www.faizani.com/news/news_2003/math_impossibility.html
Please do not ruin out topic. This is not the place to discuss such things, we are talking about sonicbloom. Thanks.

First, Mike wasn't the one to steer the discussion away from Sonic Bloom into a religious theme...

But since we're there... If you don't believe in evolution, you don't understand it. I looked at your link, and that mathemetician pulled that number that he begins his statistics with out of thin air - see for yourself. It's pretty easy to make numbers come out the way you want them to to "prove" one's agenda.

[johno]

"Neither creationism or evolution can be proven in a scientific manner. " jenfur

I beg to differ. Evolution is easily proven in a scientific manner, and has been and continues to be countless times. Creationism cannot be proven, and never has and never will, because it is unprovable.

[Lavandula Girl]

I'm sad for people who's God can't make evolution. Mine can, because He can do EVERYTHING... even dinosaurs and Cro Magnons and stuff like that. Too bad about those other, puny Gods... they must be jealous. :rolleyes:

[sammyqc]

Lav, I love your truck. It makes my sweet Minivan look small!!! And I love your post! I may not believe in your God, or any God, but you make her sound pretty good, and if she's got cool people like you hanging around, well, what can I say!

As for the rest of this thread and where it is going, my two cents:
.
As to Creationism, it is not a theory!!!!!!!!!! It is a belief. Just as Pastafarianism is a belief!!! Makes as much sense. And I tend to believe a lot more that there is a flying bowl of spaghetti, ruling the universe, than all that other malarky. (Is malarky okay by Mayberry standards?) Prove to me that it isn't true!!!! That there is not a bowl of spaghetti. That's what creationists do. Ridiculous!!!

EVOLUTION IS A THEORY. There are actual scientific discoveries that have
been made, for centuries, there are fossils, there is carbon data, etc............................................... .....

Back to my brick wall....it has a bit more give to it.

[jenfur]

Well, resorting to the my Gods bigger than you God argument certainly shows what mature, intellectual thinkers we are! My final words on the matter, research for yourself instead of taking information thats handed to you, learn the difference between micro and macro evolution and which one is backed up with scientific evidence and which one has absolutely none (hand drawn pictures of supposed too's do not count as science), and finally- you cannot claim to be tolerant if you are in fact intolerant. My beliefs are just as valid as yours.

[Lavandula Girl]

Well, resorting to the my Gods bigger than you God argument certainly shows what mature, intellectual thinkers we are!

Actually, Jenfur, I am mature and intellectual. Having read my bible, I know my God can do anything. I absolutely defend your right to believe what you'd like, and that your belief system is fabulous and right for you. Why is it that someone who believes in only evolution, or someone (like me) that believes that God can make evolution should be subjected to any less respect?

Perhaps evolution is a test of God's faithful, and the Christians who can't believe that God can do that, or would, are failing. So again, my God is the best and only one for me, and he can do that!

[G. Gordon Gumbo]

Giberillic acid is a naturally occurring chemical in plants that makes them tall by causing cell elongation. Now, what the heck does that have to do with the "fall of Eden???" Sheesh!!!

Roots emerging "from places they're not supposed to" are called aventitious roots. It happens when cells are stimulated by substances like auxin, a natural growth stimulator, and possibly the presence of excess humidity or TOO MUCH WATER!

The natural responses of a plant can be nearly immediate. Evolution takes millennia. Mutations fall somewhere in between. And then, sadly, maturation of the human mind sometimes never happens.

GGG

[redbrick]

Since the topic of evolution vs. creation has broached once again, I'll offer my personal spin on the subject. I posted this a while back in "Creation of Plants" on the "What's Happening" forum, in case anyone wants to read the entire discussion. Here's my initial posting on the subject:

If I may, I'd like to give my spin on Creation vs. Evolution. I believe that this whole debate spawns directly form Man's imperfect understanding of the Lords perfect Word (scripture). It seems that everyone is familiar with the passages of Genesis that state that the Lord created the world in six days, which most people take to mean a literal six periods of twenty four hours.

Why? Not all of Scripture is to be taken literally. There is much allegory and metaphor throughout. Consider Christ's parables. They were stories offered to illustrate a point or a concept. The meaning to each was so much more than "a son who wasted his inheritance money" or "seed spread in a field". Each had an underlying message that all could grasp.

David cried out to the Lord in Psalms 39:5 "Behold, thou hast made my days a few handsbreadths, and my lifetime is as nothing in thy sight!" In Psalms 90:4 he wrote, "For a thousand years in thy sight is but as yesteday when it is past, or as a watch in the night." Also, Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3:8 that " But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day." All this is to point out that our time is not His time. We are so limited in our view of the universe that He uses the imagery of days for us to grasp the things He has done. Scripture was written so that all could understand it's message, whether they are scholars or shepherds. What shepherd watching flocks in 3000 BC would understand the concept of Millenia or Eons? But days he'd understand.

Consider this also, in Genesis 1:26 Moses wrote "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness..." If God is of the Spirit, without form, how than can we be in His physical image? I believe that there is a deeper meaning in this passage, not that we LOOK like Him, but that we think and feel like Him. Hidden within our personalities and natures are reflections of His Nature.

If you had the choice of simply buying something, or making it for yourself, which would you do? I think that as gardeners, the answer for all of us is obvious. Yes, it's infinitely easier to simply buy something outright, but where's the joy in that? I want to FEEL the soil between my hands as I plant the seed, SMELL the breeze as I WATCH the plant grow, HEAR the birds as I harvest the crop, and TASTE the entire season as I eat the bounty of the garden. Isn't that a trememdous part of what drives us?

If we are a reflection of His Nature, why would He want to simply say "Poof! There it is, there's your new home." That would be the Metaphysical equivalent to popping into Walmart for a pound of tasteless, plastic tomatoes. We hate doing that, so why should we expect Him to do it? No, I believe that He took His time (in both senses of the phrase) and designed each organism, molded each change, guided each step of what we call evolution, and claim is totally accidental and Godless.

Personally, I find this concept to be so much more amazing and wondrous than that He would have simply given us a "prefab house" to live in. Imagine, He spent One and a half BILLION of our years creating, personally, this wonderful, intricate home of ours!

He also, I believe, did this for another reason. He wants us to believe in Him, have faith in Him and His existence, and He wants us to have free will, to choose for ourselves. Suppose He HAD created the world in six human days, and the proof WAS in the fossil record? We wouldn't have faith, we would have fact. Faith is not knowing, yet believing in what cannot be proven or disproven. Fact is, well, fact, rather cold and lifeless, don't you think? How can a man of Science hope to have faith in anything when everything has already been proven to be fact or error? I believe myself to be a man of Faith AND a man of Science.

[RozieDozie]

Well, the first part of this discussion was informative and productive, anyhow. :)

I've never heard of Sonic Bloom, although I know from years and years of gardening and growing house plants galore that plants do appreciate attention and interaction with humans. I'm really, really interested in some of the concepts being discussed because I believe there are many, many things about nature and growing plants that humans can learn if they are open to them.

I like the concept that being personally involved with your plants and tending them with tender, loving care can make a big difference. When I'm personally involved in my garden, it thrives. When I'm distracted I find it's much less productive. The transfer of energy between humans certainly makes a difference. The transfer of energy between plants and people makes a difference, too.

[Lavandula Girl]

Andy, once again, you show yourself to be a most intelligent individual! :)

[southernfried]

Andy,
That makes more sense than anything I have ever read on Evolution vs Creation. I am neither Evolutionist nor Creationist as choosing one over the other seems to limit the power of Divine Intelligence. Within the realms of possibility (IMO) lies the fact that both could be true.

It doesn't matter to me anyway, we are here. Let me just say that it would be hard (IMO) to separate nature from a higher power.

That's all. Now back to Sonic Bloom. It is a very interesting concept. It amazes me that it could be done. I probably would not do it myself. Does anyone think that eating vegetables with this (I won't say growth hormone) method of intervention to nature could actually have an affect on the human body? That would be of concern to me.

[ArtiPrinted]

Here are my pictures of the cacti. Sorry it took me so long to upload.

4512
The roots are now 2 feet long.
4511

Ok, i had this collection of cacti for like 2 years, and they did nothing, started playing the sonic bloom to them and they crew like crazy... i play it to them for about 3 months. then stopped. and now all the bright green spots have turned dark green and it doesnt grow that much any more.... It still grows more than any new cacti i buy at the store though. I was unable to spray the foliar feeding on them. Enjoy.

Here is our garden that we are building... its 8 beds 4x8 feet.
4513

If anyone wants to test it i would suggest getting a darn rubber plant that doesnt grow... and watch it take off with the bright green growth.

[ArtiPrinted]

http://www.originalsonicbloom.com/ is the new website

[ArtiPrinted]

ArtiPrinted, what sort of weird things happened to your cacti?

Would you mind DESCRIBING the process; (I'm thinking of trying it on the cheap, and with my own "foliar spray"); I already have Vivaldi's "Spring" on a CD; so I can play the music free. From what I gather, you play the music, which includes certain frequencies that occur in natural birdsong, and those sounds trigger plants to open the stomata in their leaves; then you spray the plants while their stomata are open, on the undersides of the leaves, with a foliar feed spray. Which foliar spray did you use??? Could a "garden tea" of compost, manure, microbes, bacteria, be substituted as a foliar spray, to feed the plants when their stomata are open, do you think? HOW do you spray the plants? With a hand-held spray bottle? (Could get a bit back-breaking!) ... one of those pumped-sprayers that hold a couple gallons would probably be easier. That sort of thing ... like ... how long did you use the Sonic Bloom on your cacti?

I did not use any foliar spray, didnt have any.

Not sure about garden tea. It took the Dan 20 years to figure out his garden tea.

HOW do you spray the plants?
Odoban Fogger:
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=355531

That sort of thing ... like ... how long did you use the Sonic Bloom on your cacti?
3 months

Any Pictures or updates?

[Train]

I just read the article at the above link and I am speechless. I want to believe, I really do,but I need to see or read some more about this before forming an opinion. Thanks for posting this.


Ya!
You have my complete agreement.
Train

[ArtiPrinted]

Ya!
You have my complete agreement.
Train

you can do your own tests... get a tone generator and osilate a tone from 2,000 hz-9,000hz at 300mls. Do not use it on new plants because you have to have the foliar spray to keep them from groing to fast.

[Train]

Ya!
I was just wondering how that bug juice would
work on my Gorillapenos!
Today the 'penos, tomorrow the reds.
Heheh
Train

[TastyofHasty]

ArtiPrinted, thanks for posting the pics! It's inspiring. So those roots are 2 feet long in the photo? It's hard to tell. And the music alone works, even without the foliar spray. Cool!! So, what music did you use? How loud did you play it?

BTW, thanks for the link about the Odoban Fogger, never saw or heard of one of those before.

BTW, regarding the raised beds, which look very organized, you might check out the link about American Intensive Solar Gardening on this thread:
http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14150&highlight=American

It's the next step up ... after raised beds, IMHO! In one of the pics in the "Image Gallery" for the article, which is long (14 pages), they show the size of a garden that has conventional rows with paths between; then the size of a garden with raised beds (half the size); then the size of a garden using frames with boards over the frames for walking on ... (half the size again).

[TastyofHasty]

ArtiPrinted, anyway, your pics show that Sonic Bloom (music with the right frequencies in it) WORKS. Your cacti are superior to normal, eh? Will you be using Sonic Bloom on your coming garden? Is that going to be a VEGETABLE garden?

About which music works for Sonic Bloom:
http://www.originalsonicbloom.com/published/secretsofsoil.htm

Holtz also realized that the violin music dominant in [Vivaldi's] "Spring" reflected Johann Sebastian Bach's violin sonatas broadcast by the Ottawa University researchers to a wheatfield, which had obtained remarkable crops 66 percent greater than average, with larger and heavier seeds. Accordingly, Holtz selected Bach's E-major concerto for violin for inclusion in the tape. "I chose that particular concerto," explained Holtz, "because it has many repetitions but varying notes. Bach was such a musical genius he could change his harmonic rhythm at nearly every other beat, with his chords going from E to B to G-sharp and so on, whereas Vivaldi would frequently keep to one chord for as long as four measures. That's why Bach is considered the greatest composer that ever lived. I chose Bach's string concerto, rather than his more popular organ music, because the timbre of the violin, its harmonic structure, is far richer than that of the organ."

soooooooooo .... you can google up a computer-available rendition of Bach's E-major concerto for violin right off the top of the internet:D ... just play it to your plants every morning ... like here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko9KPxr66HI&NR=1

one of the articles said something about loudspeakers SHRIEKING the music ... so I guess it won't hurt to play it loud.:cool:

[TastyofHasty]

Just thought I'd mention on this thread another "thing" I found whilst surfing;) ... that seems to have similar results to sonic bloom, and also may partly be why seaweed fertilizer works so well ...
anybody hear of ORMUS? Here's the article I found about it:
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=31&dir=DESC&order=date&limit=10&limitstart=10
The Magic & Mystery of Ormus Elements (PDF, 3rd up from the bottom) which describes what appears to be a newly discovered state of certain metals

The basic fact seems now beyond doubt, both from Hudson's work and
that of the independent group, that a number of precious (and some not so precious) metals, including rhodium, iridium, gold, platinum, palladium, copper and several others, can exist in a completely different state, in which they are not metallic—being grey or white powders when isolated in the solid state.

and ... ORMUS elements are most concentrated in seawater and volcanic soils, but are in almost everything ... and can be separated into a concentrate used to treat plants, with the results similar to Sonic Bloom: (maybe opening the stomata as Sonic Bloom does allows plants access to naturally occurring ORMUS elements?) Does this sound familiar: ...

For example, a walnut tree treated over several
years has grown to over twice the height of control trees and now
produces six times the weight of nuts—and the nuts themselves
are the size of tangerine oranges! A plum tree produced, in the
first year of treatment, individual fruit nearly twice the weight of
those from the control tree, and in the second year they were over five times the weight. One photograph shows maize plants so
high that the owner has to stand on a stepladder to reach the top.
They appear to be some 12 feet [~3.6 metres] high. Oranges were
produced the size of canteloupe melons! There are many other
examples. In addition, there are consistent reports by those using
ORMUS that ORMUS-treated crops are not only much more
productive, but they also mature earlier, need less fertiliser and
have greater resistance to pests. They even taste better!
My own experience is with potatoes. Of four rows (comprised
of two varieties), two were treated and two received an equivalent
watering. At harvest, the aggregate weight of the controls was 31
pounds [~1.41 kilograms] and the treated was 58 pounds [~2.63
kilograms]. In addition, although I have no strict controls, some
of my carrots have weighed over one pound [~454 grams].

There has been a consistent finding that yields further increase
during the second and subsequent years after treatment. This is very probably due to the effect of ORMUS in building up the soil's content of mycorrhizae—
the fungal symbionts which are necessary for plant growth.

oh yeah, and magnetism somehow opens things up to ORMUS elements ... which might tie in with the effects of magnetism on plants as mentioned on another thread:
http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6703&highlight=magnetism

[ArtiPrinted]

Yes the roots are 2 feet long in the photo. You should be able to click on the photo, i should have gotten something to compare it with.

I use only music on my cacti.

I used the default one that you get out of the sound boxes on the website.

Played it loud enough to almost hurt your ears. We would only play it when we left the house to go to town. so about... 8 hours a week they got music. somtimes more when we go to church.

Thanks for the link... cannot see any pictures... got to do more research on that one. I like the green house pods. I might add some to mine.



ArtiPrinted, thanks for posting the pics! It's inspiring. So those roots are 2 feet long in the photo? It's hard to tell. And the music alone works, even without the foliar spray. Cool!! So, what music did you use? How loud did you play it?

BTW, thanks for the link about the Odoban Fogger, never saw or heard of one of those before.

BTW, regarding the raised beds, which look very organized, you might check out the link about American Intensive Solar Gardening on this thread:
http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14150&highlight=American

[ArtiPrinted]

Well, they are growing and that is not normal for cacti, it takes forever to get them to do anything. Yes that is going to be a vegetable garden. Any of the music that is on the bloom website, but i used the sound from the speakers they offer. It sounds like a bird or a cricket.

ArtiPrinted, anyway, your pics show that Sonic Bloom (music with the right frequencies in it) WORKS. Your cacti are superior to normal, eh? Will you be using Sonic Bloom on your coming garden? Is that going to be a VEGETABLE garden?

About which music works for Sonic Bloom:
http://www.originalsonicbloom.com/published/secretsofsoil.htm

[ArtiPrinted]

Thank you, there are still many things we do not understand about Gods Creation, and how things react to the environment.

Just thought I'd mention on this thread another "thing" I found whilst surfing;) ... that seems to have similar results to sonic bloom, and also may partly be why seaweed fertilizer works so well ...
anybody hear of ORMUS? Here's the article I found about it:
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=31&dir=DESC&order=date&limit=10&limitstart=10

[TastyofHasty]

ORMUS is the big subject on my brain these days, aside from general gardening, that is! An inert form of metals that over millennia have mostly been washed into the sea (which explains why seaweed makes such great fertilizer) (and why sea salt is so good for you) (especially Dead Sea salt) and is in high concentrates in volcanic soils, and is actually in the AIR ... there may be more gold in the world, in ORMUS form, than has been mined in metallic form! as well as other metals; and they are in high concentrations in BRAINS, and they make plants grow and produce very similarly to the reports on the magnetism thread (which may be related to ORMUS, actually, since ORMUS elements are affected by magnetism), and to the reports for Sonic Bloom...

also people that are drinking ORMUS elements find it can (amongst other health benefits) change their hair color back from gray; here's a link that has a pic of one man's head (BOTTOM of his hair is grey, the hair growing out at the TOP is brown!) and how he "grows" his ORMUS (under heading, "Effects of Magnetic Water" about 2/3 down the page):
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/hudson/ormusgas.htm

[Growing Boy]

From what I can see your cactus has a prostrate growing habit is is actually trying to spread. You should get those roots in soil and see what happens. Cacti have wildly differing growing habits. Back in Florida I had some that would grow 2 or 3 inches per year some 2 or 3 feet.
Plants seem to respond to attention. I had a spot in my nursery that was an exile place. If a plant was'nt producing it would go into exile to either start growing or die. Most would perk up in a few days rather than face sure death. I play late 60's rock and roll all day when i'm working in the greenhouse. Everything seems very happy.