Dark Secret of Organic retailers.

[PhilosopherStorm]

http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/?nav=ais

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Another heading on the Whole Foods banner says "Help the Small Farmer." "Buying organic," it states, "supports the small, family farmers that make up a large percentage of organic food producers." This is semantic sleight of hand. As one small family farmer in Connecticut told me recently, "Almost all the organic food in this country comes out of California. And five or six big California farms dominate the whole industry." There's a widespread misperception in this country—one that organic growers, no matter how giant, happily encourage—that "organic" means "small family farmer." That hasn't been the case for years, certainly not since 1990, when the Department of Agriculture drew up its official guidelines for organic food. Whole Foods knows this well, and so the line about the "small family farmers that make up a large percentage of organic food producers" is sneaky. There are a lot of small, family-run organic farmers, but their share of the organic crop in this country, and of the produce sold at Whole Foods, is minuscule.
---------------------------

Here again we see why it is so important to avoid the simple but misleading "solution" of more regulation, and instead choose personal responsibility. Seek out that local farmers, seek out local healthy produce. Seek out healthy, responsible food choices.

[zebraman]

Ahhh.The Magic of Advertising!Any time the Govt.gets involved means bureaucracies and complications for the small grower.The Main problem with small growers here in CA. is that they seem to think their produce is worth its weight in gold.The FM in S.Monica sells Heirloom Tomatoes for $5.00 lb.and "RALPHS" sells them for $4.00 lb.And since EVERYTHING else in S.CA is really expensive people naturally look for bargains.I don't shop shop at Whole Foods because I,like Cartman, Hate Hippies!

[Timeless Rogue]

So I guess I missed something here ... how did 'hippies' get into this and what have they got to do with Whole Foods, which is a natural and organic foods supermarket?

[farmergirl]

Zebraman-
What is your definition of a "hippy" and why do you hate them?

[zebraman]

Hey Farmergirl; The ref.was with "Cartman" who is on SouthPark.IT WAS MEANT IN JEST!Actually WHOLE FOODS is Way over priced and sells as much packaged over Processed food as regular Grocery stores.HIPPIES is a term I use for the Bodhi,Sedona,Santa FE crowd that are still in that mindset and still trying to pull off the look but driving SUV's.And if you were born after the early '50s you don't fit into this catagory anyway.I was born in '59 and I'm too young to be a Hippy,Thank God!-

[simmis]

Any time the Govt.gets involved means bureaucracies and complications for the small grower.

Now that sounds really strange coming from someone who just got a whole bunch of free seeds from said Govt.

Especially when those seeds are available from seed companies and other sources, but you went to the Govt. so you could get them for free.

And you like to brag about how much money you make and how much your house is worth, but you've got your hand out for those free seeds, yup yup.

Might as well be on welfare, ya bum.

If you're worried about bureaucracies and complications when the Govt. gets involved, BUY your seeds from a seed company.

[zebraman]

Hey Guys;I voted for Bush,Both times.I also voted for Regan both times.I LOVE the Govt.I support the troops in Irag.and I support the War as well!As I stated before I buy several Hundred Dollars worth of seeds every year.I ordered these Tomato seeds from The USDA/GRIN before receiving SSE yearbook 06.I have Checked with office of USDA here in CA.and have found out that I am Not in the wrong.So to me it is not relevant as to what anyone else thinks.I also get alot of enjoyment watching all of you getting your underwear all up in knots over this.Life is Really Fun.Enjoy!

[Timeless Rogue]

And these 'free' seeds plus the 'several hundred dollars worth' are being utilized where ... your 'farm' in Venice? Just curious where our tax dollars are being spent ...

[Pharmerphil]

Hmm, is it a full moon ? :rolleyes:

[wilderness1989]

Hmm, is it a full moon ? :rolleyes:
IT SURE LOOKS LIKE IT....THE VAMPIRES ARE OUT!!!!! ;-)

[flowerpower]

I think you mean Werewolves. Vampires can come out on any night. LOL

[CruzAK]

**HIPPIES is a term I use for the Bodhi,Sedona,Santa FE crowd that are still in that mindset and still trying to pull off the look but driving SUV's.And if you were born after the early '50s you don't fit into this catagory anyway.I was born in '59 and I'm too young to be a Hippy,Thank God!-[/QUOTE]**

Methinks that you have never been to Santa Cruz CA. Plenty of 'hippies' here that were definitely born after 1959 and drive the VW's to prove it! LOL :D
Definitely a time warp going on here.

[zebraman]

Hey CruzAK;I have been to Santa Cruz.The Hippies born after the fifties aren't really Hippies,just wannabe's.They may like the Ideals but nothing else.I know alot of people that were "THERE" in the sixties,and consequently do not remember most of the Sixties.Anyway they're all grown up and are totally different now.If they're driving VW's that means they're no different than the rest of society conected to the Middle East.I was just pointing out why I don't shop at Whole Foods.If you could somehow convince the Hippies in LA to move up there I would Greatly Appreciate it.Thanks and Have a Great Day.-

[CruzAK]

I don't shop at Whole foods either(can't afford it) but do enjoy the farmers markets around here. Plenty of the 'hippies' around here do drive the vw's and conver them to biodiesel or battery power with solar panels(not all, but they didn't have that option in the 60's either). Some have the old busses converted to biodiesel, some mount vw vans on to for extra sleeping quarters and a second story. one person even has an old fighter jet on the top of his for a bedroom. If the Hippies that you know dont remember the 60's how do they even know what the ideals were that they stood for? What about the ones today that continue the 'traditions' today? Just because they arent 'exactly like the ones of yesterday doesn't mean that they aren't there in heart and spirit. Things and ideals can change with the times and survive. Most of them that I know(younger and older) do not drive Suv's. They have tatoos, dreadlocks or long hair, vintage clothing, seasonal, creative/artistic, self employed or part time jobs, have a variety of religious beliefs, many are involved with medical cannibas use but are against stronger more chemical forms of drugs. I think that there will always be 'hippies' in some form wherever you live. I enjoy living in an area that has a creative variety of people around. Its not perfect but I enjoy it. Most hippies I know can't afford Whole foods either. Most support local agriculture as much as possible which is easy to do here, lots of variety. I know not everyone is able to do so but everyone is able to question where the food comes from that they are buying and take measures to change it if they don't like it. Anyway, I realize that you were trying to make a 'funny' when you refered to hippies in your perevious post, however, perhaps the term you meant to use was 'YUPPIE'(or yuppy). Around here they are the ones driving the SUV's(a diesel humvee qualifies as a fuel efficient suv in their book) and shop at whole foods and other similar stores. They are the ones that fit the profile talked about in the article that was first refered to. They often are .COM'ers who took the money and ran, or are living off inheritance or have some other form of income that they did not necessarily create themselves. I know some of those too. I haven't much positive to say about them so will remain silent.

[Pharmerphil]

I spent my youth, fighting those opposed to hippies
Did I have long hair..YES, I still do, I am Native American. I had long hair forever.
Did I adopt the hippy dress, well sort of..but it was because I was POOR...ever try to buy clothes from a second hand store in the sixties/seventies that wasn't paisley, or Bell bottom! :)
Did I drive a micro bus? YES, it belonged to what most referred to as the "commune" which wasn't, it was a bunch of folks, who with a combined income, could afford to feed their children.
But let me tell you, the classification of HIPPY, did, and still does turn me into a REDNECK.
Even today, this continues, from the days when a car would drive by, shouting out Hey, sweetie, Get a hair cut, to the narrow minded looks today, nothing has changed. To those that do not know me, To reflect my heritage, and to live by the wishes of my departed Mother, I have to outright catch them giving me that "look" and say, No, not a hippy, a proud Native of this Land, it's that or wear a Freakin' SIGN ;;)

[PhilosopherStorm]

PharmerPhil,

It seems we share some similar history. I too have spent most of my life celebrating my heritage, which in part includes long hair, and I too have gotten the off color remarks to which you allude. Fortunately I never let them bother me, choosing instead to live a life of respect for my heritage, myself, and for others, as it seems you describe yourself doing as well.

Just as with most movements, there were good ideas contained within the hippie movement. Certainly the love of freedom and freedom with love were wonderful, compassionate and just notions. They moved the US away from the police state back towards what the founders imagined. (Sadly all of that ground has been lost, but that is for another thread).

Sure the socialism was/is harmful, but that was not core to the hippies, but rather a spin off of the politicos who claimed the hippies.

I'll take the tradition of natural foods, healthy living, appreciation of nature, exploration of the environment, and respect for others which mark the hippie movement.

Certainly we could really use some of that tolerance, inclusion, and respect for others today!
PS

[GreenCap]

Well said Phil and Phil :) I agree with you both. I think that there is nothing more beautiful than long healthy hair, on a man or woman, wish I had some. I wish that more people would stand up for thier rights and protest like the 60's, seems like a lot of sheeple these days.

[PhilosopherStorm]

GreenCap,
Unfortunately since the 60's there has been an increase in fundamentalism along with the inherent attitude that all who disagree are evil (and should be destroyed) so the very idea of patriotic dissent has been beaten out of the "sheeple" (as you put it) of the US. Even in personal exchanges the willingness to disagree with respect has all but disappeared.

The result is minority voices are silenced, alternative views squashed, and so there is far less exposure to alternatives, and far less rational thought being used in the marketplace of ideas.

Recently several authors have begun to write on these notions of fundamentalism (not merely in religion but in other ideologies, including politics) and the harm that it is doing to the US. President Carter comments upon it in his latest book, but there are republicans also who are concerned about this change in the weather over the last 30-40 years.

I have no solution other than the personal one, that being to refrain from the demonization, name calling, insults, etc. which are the symptoms of the fundamentalist attitude.

BTW I agree about the hair.. as long as it is well kept as in clean.. :)

PS

[SunflowerMeg]

Great thread. You are all an interesting bunch of folks. I gotta agree with all of you, in certain respects...don't see anything to argue with really. Darn. Of course, I don't always understand was Storm is actually saying, but I get the jist of it. :) LOL. I would have to say my attitude is a lot like zebraman, and so are my politics. But I'm a treehugger, to some extent, but I'm not out to obsessively save the planet...I don't trust those folks either.

I buy organic because the food tastes better and because I know it's better for me. But I feel the industry is gauging the heck out of me, far more than regular grocery stores. I am fortunate to live close to several well-stocked "health food stores", but they are all out for big profit...the co-op believes in what they are doing and still charges big, but the other ones...well, I'm not sure they could care less about organic or the planet. It feels more like they care about one thing...their pocketbooks. I find it highly pathetic that the younger wannabe hippie crowds hang out at these stores as if they have found a niche of some kind, and they are completely unaware (IMHO), that the stores have one goal in mind, and that is money. Their narrow-minded idealism would be squashed if they had a clue. One of these "wannabes" left a nasty note on my car once because I had a "George Bush" sticker on my bumper...the note called me several filthy names and told me to go straight to h-e double L and to burn there. Nice person. So much for love and peace and tolerance. It's easy to put on the costume, but a little harder to walk the walk I guess...takes maturity to do that. Anyhow, bottom line is I don't trust anyone who makes huge profits, no matter their business. I don't pay attention to the slogans, the banners, the anything. I try to make some sense out all and just try sort through the BS and do what I think is best, right or wrong.

[Pharmerphil]

P.S.
perhaps this was mistaken by some:
But let me tell you, the classification of HIPPY, did, and still does turn me into a REDNECK.
Thank you, your words made me realize that It could have been misinterpreted.

allow me to rephrase that.
I believe in exceptance of all, regardless of ethnicity.
No, I never struck out, Have to admit though, I did get my Patootie kicked a few times!
We must look beyond outword appearance, and usually if we allow this, we find some very interesting people.
Minneapolis has a very high Hmong population, a fellow m.g, told me they were a scab on society, but you know, I went to St.Pauls farmers Market once, and intentionally sought out the many hmong gardeners, and I found them to be some of the most knowledgable gardeners, I have ever met.
And the ones harrassing me in my youth, are some of my best friends back home now.

[PhilosopherStorm]

PP,

I suspect that you intended to write "acceptance" though "exceptance" does explain the posts in the Manners thread. Care to clarify which you mean?

[Pharmerphil]

acceptance is what I had intended..too early, not enough java, maybe if I didn't have 6 windows open on three browsers at the same time, I would be able to proof read, what my fingers are doing :rolleyes:

[GreenCap]

I happen to LOVE diversity, ethnicity and different opinions. FREE THOUGHT is why I love this country, and this forum. I look forward to waking up and reading all of your posts. ALL of them, I think my favorites are the more controversial ones, because they force me to examine my own beliefs and where I stand on certain issues. If I don't agree with someone that is ok, it doesn't mean I want them to stop posting or I don't like them anymore. I don't like Bush but I do like sunflower (good to see you back) and yes....I even like zebraman ;) Have a great day and God bless-aundrea PS I hope you don't take your ball and go home cause I still want to play :D

[bmarkham]

I don't think my views of diversity and stuff are relevant so I hope nobody minds if I don't share. (*grin*)

But what I WILL do is point out that there is an alternative to the National Organic Program called "Certified Naturally Grown" that complies with the same standards but requires very minimal paperwork.

Certified Naturally Grown is specifically oriented toward small family farms. If you want produce that you KNOW came from a small farm and that was grown small-O organically, look for the Certified Naturally Grown label. Check out www.naturallygrown.org . Unlike the NOP, incidentally, Certified Naturally Grown provides for random testing for pesticides and stuff - giving even greater assurance than the NOP. My own mini-farm is Certified Naturally Grown and I sell seedlings, overproduction, etc. (Sometimes I have overproduction because I do plant breeding experiments that sometimes make way more broccoli or tomatoes or whatever than my family would ever eat.)

The big "organic" retailers are way overpriced. From my impression, they seem to be a way of fleecing people of any excess funds they may have by doubling their grocery bill while letting them feel self-righteous while doing it.

The thing that got me back into gardening (I grew up on a farm in the south but didn't garden for my adult life in the northeast) was the grocery bills I was seeing when my wife (2nd one) came back from the grocery store after spending $250+/week on all organic produce, meat, soups etc. from the closest chain natural food store.

First, I tried to convince her that there was nothing wrong with just regular food; but (my wife being a very bright woman) she actually convinced me that there really was a difference in healthfulness etc. So we endured $250 food bills for a year before I decided to bust out a bunch of books, get educated, and start raising our own food because that's just plain ridiculous.

I started with a 400 square foot garden organized in raised beds using Mel's Square Foot Gardening technique, and expanded using that and Grow Biointensive. Now I raise not just vegetables, but fruits (apples/pears/berries/grapes), grains (oats and wheat) and other calorie-dense crops like potatoes and jerusalem artichoke. The grocery bill has been cut substantially and the only thing really expensive is meat and fruits.

My next venture will be into poultry raising so I can stop buying other people's cage-free organic eggs and meat .... but that's contingent on the whole avian flue thing which is in another thread ...

In my opinion - the organic food store is a rip-off; and the solution is to grow your own! For anything you don't grow for yourself, check out the Certified Naturally Grown website for a list of certified farms near you, along with LocalHarvest that lists REAL family farms nearby. Keeping it local has a bunch of advantages.

[zebraman]

Hey Cruzak;Let me start with my friend Nancy Nevins-She was the lead singer for the band "Sweetwater" which was the opening act at the original Woodstock.Not too long after this was involved in a near fatal car accident,(proving once again that drugs and alcohol and driving DO NOT MIX!)Which also destroyed her ability to sing.Several years ago she went back to college to get her masters and she took a Sociolgy class on the 60's and all of her classmates were always reminding her that she was there and her response was MMMmmm Not Really.Also in point my friend Karen Garrison who was a nurse at Said Woodstock and she says the only people more Loaded than the Concert goers and the Bands were the Nurses in the Trailers.My friend Julia Negron-who is married to Chuck Negron(Three Dog Night).Before him she was with one of the "DOORS".She spent most of the Sixties and Seventies "Chasing The Dragon".(This by the way is what Zepplins "Stairway to Heaven" is about).She is now P off because she inadvertantly forgot to pay taxes during this time but the Govt.didn't.And that brings us to Grace Slick.Her Daughter China told me how Traumatizing it was for her as a young girl at school when MOM showed up in a Delorean,with Blue hair and reeking of booze.Grace can embarrase Sailors with her verbal skills when she is sober,which isn't the case currently.People don't remember the sixties not only because of "the Cannibas" but because ALL the other Party Favors that were just as prevelent.
I realize you are in your early 20's which also explains the Blissful Ignorance of the statement that Hippies in your area are for Medical Marijuanna but against stronger Chemical Drugs.You obviously forgot about STP-2,000 micrograms of LSD in one convenient little hit,or the Methedrine which is called Meth now.Or Yellow Jackets,Black Beauties,Pink Jesus,Green Goddess,Purple Microdot,Mescalin,Hashish,China White (Not the Radish),Not to mention the Plethera of organic Halucinogens.The Hippies were the ones that opened this Giant and Deadly Pandora's Box upon the Country and the World.If your hippies had consumed these items they wouldn't remember much either.Their Ideals are the Ideals of youth that one must shed in order to grow up and become Productive and Usefully Whole.
But look on the bright side,You will be 40 sooner than you think.

[LoreD]

I just hit the ignore on zebraman's profile. I do not intend to waste my eyesight on this.

LoreD

[CruzAK]

Gee, I just don't quite know how to answer that one, except to say that I'M 41 YEARS YOUNG, and last time I checked, not everyone who considers themselves to be a hippie(oldschool or modern) attended Woodstock, or was in the entainment business, or was nearly as knowlegeble about illegal drugs and the slang terms used to refer to them as you are. Sure there was the whole drug scene hippie thing but there were also the back to the land organic hippies, the weekend hippies, Jesus(Christian) hippies etc. You can't just lump everyone into one category and say that they were all like that. BTW, you seem to have alot of 'friends' in the drug/alcohol abusing category(I'm sure you're using the term 'friends' very loosely). I'm sure you also realize that substance abuse in any form causes a lot of pain in any family. Sometimes a person starts this vicious cycle to dull their own pain from childhood, or other emotional/physical causes. It unfortunately carries over to their families etc...(sometimes called a generational curse) It can be broken but it has to be a choice, as is the choice to not be abusive either physically, mentally or verbally.
Now back to buying organic foods in the stores(which this post is about), I'm sure, living in SoCal, that you have quite a few farmers markets around that arent as expensive as whole foods, and have fewer yuppies cruising the parking lot gabbing on cell phones. also, flea markets have some organic farmers selling at them too as well as closeout bulk organic foods.
Sorry LoreD, I was busy typing and didn't see your great response till after I posted this.

[zebraman]

Hey Cruzak;You cannot work in the biz and not know people who use or used to use drugs.Nancy,China,Julia and Chuck no longer use drugs.They actually Grew Up.You were the one who made the distinqtion between Good Illegal drugs and Bad Illegal drugs.
And if LorD actually practiced what she preaches she would not have even seen this.Oh Well.Anyway this was Originally a response to Farmgirls post,so I am wondering Why you interjected yourself into it if you have problems with dissenting opinions?You sound by your Ideas that you are really young.
All the Farmers markets in S.CA are overpriced.I shop at Marina Farms,Trader Joes,A really great Italian meat market in the Marina,which is way overpriced,but High quality,
Bristol Farms,Gelsons,and Sorrentos which are all over priced.But NO HIPPIES!

[LoreD]

I am very happy to not see Zebraman's posts regarding his endless fantasies. I know they are fantasies because my daughter actually met a major film producer and his family.

When my daughter went to college for four years in Paris she met the daughter of a film producer who produced films with major stars like Matt Dillon. The endless name dropping to strangers never happened. They spoke of the entertainment business in a very casual way. They behaved as if they were normal people. Major stars were only mentioned in passing. They didn't behave as if their lifestyle was any different from any other wealthy southern California family. You do not speak or behave in any way like these people. You speak like a bad 80's sitcom.

I know that I am really tired of hearing about the price of your house, your friends, your fantasy lifestyle. It is infinitely boring. You seem to have nothing better to do with your life except live on this forum talking about yourself.

Thank God I don't have to see your reply.

LoreD

[DanaDW]

But what I WILL do is point out that there is an alternative to the National Organic Program called "Certified Naturally Grown" that complies with the same standards but requires very minimal paperwork.

Certified Naturally Grown is specifically oriented toward small family farms. If you want produce that you KNOW came from a small farm and that was grown small-O organically, look for the Certified Naturally Grown label. Check out www.naturallygrown.org .

Thank you for that information, very useful.

[zebraman]

Hey LoreD; When my daughter went to college for four years in Paris she met the dauter of a film producer who produced films with major stars like Matt Dillon.It sure is great that you didn't resort to name dropping as this would totally defeat the point of your post!
Your post #26 contadicts post # 29.You do see this-Right?Anyway the best part of this forum is that it is an Open Forum.If everyone agreed on everything no one would be posting anything.
The whole point of being true to yourself is that you attract people who want to be friends with you and not somebody else,or who they would like you to be.You would be wise to just focus on the gardening threads and not Off Topics.-

[CruzAK]

Thank you LoreD for your great advice, and thank you Bmarkham for your insight and your way of combating the high price of health food. Unfortunately, I am in too shady an area to be able to do gardening at the level that I need to feed my family organicaly, however I do have my small flock of chickens and 3 turkeys. I am starting to get enough eggs to sell/trade do they are starting to pay for themselves. I may try to find a garden spot to rent this spring/summer so I can raise some of my own things. I really enjoy the flea market though, and the farmers market.

[bmarkham]

Hi CruzAK,

I dunno what your shade situation is, but there are two books on shade gardening that may be helpful. One is "Making the Most of Shade" and the other is "the Complete Shade Gardener."

I suspect, being that the laws of nature can't be escaped, that what can be grown in shade is somewhat limited so that self sufficiency will depend on what you said - finding someplace to plant!

I don't use a huge amount of space, btw. I started off using Mel's Square Foot Gardening and then mixed in Grow Biointensive. In less than 100 square feet, for example, I grew 22 lbs of broccoli, 12 lbs cauliflower, unmeasurable pole beans, at least two bushels of tomatoes, cans upon cans of pickles, frozen spinach galore etc.

Techniques like Square Foot and Grow Biointensive typically have the same productivity as a space 5 times their size, and my experience has confirmed that. Three 4'x8' beds will give you as much harvest as a 20x25 garden.

Using that sort of approach, if you have hardly any unshaded area at all - you can grow stuff. But if you are in a perpetually shaded spot .... well, it's back to what you said: renting some space.

The one thing I'd emphasize is that the typical family only consumes about $500 worth of veggies a year. In order to make a significant dent in the family food budget you need high-calorie crops like potatoes and grains. (For folks who eat meat, chickens and turkeys like what you are doing are also a great start!) My own largest land-area usage is for grains (mostly wheat, but some oats and corn) followed by root crops like potatoes and sunchokes. This makes a much bigger dent in the grocery bill than veggies alone - though anything is a good start!

:-)

[CruzAK]

I have 'The complete shade gardener". But it doesnt give too many ikeas regarding edible stuff to grow. I can do mushrooms, and a few berries, fruit trees etc. My small garden locations don't get enough sun for a long enough period(s) during the day to make most efforts worth my while. I only get a few tomatoes, a marginal amount of lettuce, etc, so that is why I've decided to look at some of my neighbors sunny areas to work something out. We also have heavy clay soil that is fertile but needs lots of amending and mulch cover to keep moisture in and to be able to grow root crops. I'll bet I can do the sunchokes, they'll grow anywhere. Avocado trees do well but I don't get enough sun for them to produce(any disgarded pit will grow to tree size(6-10feet) within a few years. I would like to top some of the smaller redwoods along our back line to let more sun in. I also think a greenhouse with the white corrugated stuff would make the most of all the daylight. Thanks!

[deb65802]

Shade is a problem here as well. The neighbors trees ahve not ben pruned in many years. They are leaning into our yard straining for light. We are going to thin them out as much as possible.. Neighbor will not be happy with us but what hangs over in our prperty is subject to be cut so I can garden. We eat way more than 500 dollars worth of veggies. We buy our meat in bulk from a butcher here. Saving every penny we can is what i focus on to buy more fruit trees. We need a bigger orchard.

[CruzAK]

I'm also learning to 'wildcraft' harvesting what I know to be edible that grows wild(sustainably of course) Elderberries, plums, blackberries, certain mushrooms, that sort of thing.

[dirtundernails]

I just bought the hardy kiwi Arctic Beauty that likes part to full shade. It's supposed to bear the first or second year.

dun

[CruzAK]

OH OH OH(excitedly jumping upand down) I'll have to check on that and maybe get some. Do you need a male and female plant???(seems like I reaed that you may to get fruit but one male will work for multiple females)

[dirtundernails]

Yes, male and female are required, and one male will pollinate eight females. In catalogs, they are very expensive. I found mine at the Evil Store ( *** Mart ) and could't resist the $ 7 for two plants - one of each gender.

dun

[CruzAK]

Yes, I know, sometimes it is hard to resist those good deals.

[louanne]

I am only on page two of this thread and already having a very good time...
I was born in 58 and dont consider myself a hippie...but a flower child....HA...HA...seriously...
but let me tell ya it took over fourty years for me to begin to realize just what I was....an anothr eight to start to live the "talk"
I've shopped at whole foods....occassionally...its fun....
got a friend who works for them...actually a few...they say its an exellent company towork for....
but the real fun IS shopping farmers markets an estate and garage sales...
I truely appreciate making use of things that others dont want anymore...
it might not be as pretty to some...but I have rescued alot of things for seniors being moved to homes and such that wre real worried about who would take care of their stuff.....
I spent the last five years in st louis regathering alot of my moms stuff...
and I love not spending my money on things that go into the trash a year later...

there are two sides to almost everything.....
false advertising or hyped advertising always happens...
blessed ar we who pick and choose what we Decide to apply to our own lives
that is my true freedom....

[oldgaredneck]

I just hit the ignore on zebraman's profile. I do not intend to waste my eyesight on this.

LoreD


Gotta love that IGNORE button!!!!!!:D

[gloryglory]

Heh, around here we call whole foods: whole paycheck ;)

[louanne]

yes expensive it is....was....we dont have one here...
my friend ran theprepared foods area....so when I would gointo chatter...we would buy a snack...
but you know us cheffie types...gotta critique everything....
I also love trader joes....anothe store I cannot visit anymore....cause o distance...

[Lillian Osborne]

Hey Guys;I voted for Bush,Both times.I also voted for Regan both times.I LOVE the Govt.I support the troops in Irag.and I support the War as well!As I stated before I buy several Hundred Dollars worth of seeds every year.I ordered these Tomato seeds from The USDA/GRIN before receiving SSE yearbook 06.I have Checked with office of USDA here in CA.and have found out that I am Not in the wrong.So to me it is not relevant as to what anyone else thinks.I also get alot of enjoyment watching all of you your underwear all up in knots over this.Life is ReallyFun.Enjoy!

Hey, Z'man

I have been looking for seed of a winter squash variety called 'Quality' for quite some time. It was recently in the government seed bank, but I do not know anything about how an individual might get information, seed, or just a brush-off.

Any suggestions?

Lillian

[gloryglory]

Not to butt in, but I had always heard that the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven were channelled...let's see...

OK, here's a quote that's attributed to Robert Plant..

‘I was just sitting there with Pagey in front of a fire at Headley Grange. Pagey had written these chords and he played them for me. I was holding a pencil and paper and for some reason, I was in a very bad mood. Then all of a sudden my hand was writing out the words: “There’s a lady who’s sure, all that glitters is gold, and she’s buying a Stairway to Heaven.” I just sat there and I looked at the words and I almost leapt out of my seat.’”4

Is this not correct? I have never seen anything where they attributed the lyrics to celtic myth, and just believed the above as being so. Perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to believe what I read though, lol. Can you direct me to where I might find them talking about how the song came about and the celtic connection?

[MawkHawk]

Well, Van Morrison told my close personal friend Steve Miller, who told me while I was talking to George Harrison.....I mean Ringo Starr.... at my beachfront house in Malibu where I'm producing my new public access cable show "Wilson Middle School 2006 Band Concert" that "Stairway to Heaven" is about the J.R.R. Lord of the Rings trilogy, which was responsible for launching the drug culture, by the way. I know. My sister was there.

[MawkHawk]

And it is well known that LZ were all into the Lord of the Rings crap:

One verse mentions 'There's a feeling I get when I look to the west, and my spirit is crying for leaving,' which is most likely Frodo before his trip into Mordor, looking west towards the Shire one last time before the trials ahead...'

(ahem)

and 'In the darkest depths of Mordor I saw a girl so fair (or is it "fare"). And Gollum, the Evil One, swept up and sumpthin-sumpthin-sumpthin away with her her, her her, yeah."

J.R.R. told me himself.

[Rising Sun Organics]

Ahhh.The Magic of Advertising!Any time the Govt.gets involved means bureaucracies and complications for the small grower.The Main problem with small growers here in CA. is that they seem to think their produce is worth its weight in gold.The FM in S.Monica sells Heirloom Tomatoes for $5.00 lb.and "RALPHS" sells them for $4.00 lb.And since EVERYTHING else in S.CA is really expensive people naturally look for bargains.I don't shop shop at Whole Foods because I,like Cartman, Hate Hippies!



hey now...i have "hippie-ish" tendencies...we're not all bad:)

[tsteven1]

Have hippies finally learned to bathe? One would think not with the sanitation news concerning Cindy Shehanoi's rout in Crawford, Texas. Good points, Zebraman.