Those pesky weeds!

[ssbevett]

Hello..I am a new member living in zone 7..am just floundering around in my attempt to practice organic gardening..HOW in the world do you keep up with the weeds???it is killing me..does anyone know of a method that REALLY works??? my aching back would apprecite an answer..Thanks..SSbevett

[lovetogarden]

New gardens are prone to have quite a few weed seeds. It gets better as you continually garden organically so don't give up.

You can try putting down a thick layer of mulch between your plants---hay, wood chips, newpaper. These will eventually decompose and enrich your soil.

Or buy landscape cloth and cut out holes for your plants.

[shadowwalker37148]

Thanks for the plant spacing info.
On Weeds! I had real good luck, weeding by the Almanac. I put a huge dent in the weeding by weeding with their charts and times. Strongly suggest this. shadowwalker37148 :)

[jrljames]

i thank god every day for my weeds; stress management! think positive.

[GreenZone]

Mulch is the best way to control weeds IMHO. The thing is to mulch at the right time. You need to consider soil temperature and moisture. It's an art, not a science, and a large topic in its own right. All I'll add here is that, in my experience, the thing to do is mulch while the weeds are small, and either smother 'em out or pull them prior to mulching. Put it on thick and you've got 'er made. In my early gardens the mistake i'd make was letting the weeds get ahead of me before starting the mulching regimen. That never worked 'cause I couldn't get caught up. That's why I say get the mulch down before the weeds get out of hand.

[RaspberryFlyer]

I am also an organic gardener, and I control weeds with about three to four inches of mulch.


Specifically, I like a product that Home Depot sells called "Soil Conditioner."


It is finely shredded tree bark. I use it as a mulch during the growing year, then sometime between Halloween and Thanksgiving, I take that soil conditioner and work it into the soil. I add a heaping helping of cottonseed meal along with the soil conditioner, and wet the soil to the consistancy of a wet sponge if no rain is in the forecast.


That begins the composting process.


Here in zone 7, that mixture of soil conditioner and cottonseed meal will compost over the winter, and by late March, the largest portion of it has turned completely to nutritious compost.


BTW, you could mix other nitrogen rich things in with the soil conditioner instead of cottonseed meal, but the local Farmer's Co-op sells 50 pound bags of cottonseed meal for 6 bux, and they do not even have to charge tax for the stuff.


The important thing is to mix some ready source of nitrogen for the soil conditioner, so it does not steal the nitrogen that your plants will need come spring time as it composts.
:o

[GreenZone]

RaspberryFlyer,
Would u care to elaborate a bit more on the virtues and uses of cottonseed meal? I'm thinking of using some in my garden this year, as the chickens just aren't turning out manure fast enough (first year garden etc.)
--Randel

[terrianne]

About the weeds...type in Ruth Stout in a search engine. This woman was featured in Mother Earth News a few years ago....she mulches and doesn't till...no weeds...Great way to garden :)

[RaspberryFlyer]

GreenZone,


I first learned about cottonseed meal when I took Tennessee Master Gardener training a few years back.


Cottonseed meal is a great organic fertilizer -- heavy on the nitrogen, but it has other nutrients in it too. Like most other organics, it is a slow release fertilizer, and will not burn the plants it is used on.


www.espoma.com has a number of different blends of full, organic fertilizer blends -- by full I mean that these are mixes that have all 15 (or is it 17?) different nutrients needed by plants. I notice that one of the primary ingredients in most of their blends is cottonseed meal.


Although I use their Garden Tone, Tree Tone, Plant Tone and Tomato Tone organic blends alot, at the end of the season I use the cottonseed meal alone. I mix it in with the shredded bark soil conditioner, and mix that into the existing raised bed garden soil -- because if I were to mix the mulch into the soil without a reliable source of slow release nitrogen, then the mulch would steal the existing nitrogen out of the soil (in order to compost the mulch over the winter), and then I would have a nitrogen deficiency by springtime.


Cottonseed meal serves the same function as blood meal, but is alot cheaper, at least here in Tennessee. I can buy a 50 pound sack of the stuff for six dollars.


It is the best thing to use when you have plenty of phosphorus and potassium in the soil, but need more nitrogen.


Before I found out about Garden Tone, however, I used cottonseed meal alone, or else I mixed some powdered rock phosphorus and or greensand and or epson salts (magnisium), depending on the results of soil tests.


If one is on a seriously slim budget, I would think that they could probably get away with using just cottonseed meal alone for a season or two. Not the best situation, but far better than using alot of harmful chemical fertilizers on the garden. And cheaper too.


If you have other questions, I'll try to answer them.

[kabuti]

Hi, we have a Big weed probem here, in the warm weather. it is cold here now Try planting a cover crop, I am useing annual ryegrass & it has beat out the weeds very well. they are still there but shaded & small & not a threat, yet. also am going to keep everything, paths & bare soil in eithe a dense veg cover or mulch. even with deep mulch here the weeds will get thru or the mice/rats will breed under it. Also my exp with some hay/staw mulch was to have it germinate & was as bad as weeds! Not all weeds are bad so dont go overboard. weeds can be controlled & utilised as companions/deep roots also bring up nutrients your plants cant normally reach, also compost the weeds befor they go to seed & this can be your better fertiliser. try crowding most of them out, I'm going to seed my veggies rite in the cut-back cover crop this spring & will make the results known. Good luck

[Pharmerphil]

This is my late and early season control, works well between WIDE rows all year long
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Phlaura/Organic_weed_control.jpg

[pollywogdeb]

Hi, I'm deb, new a few days ago here. This is a subject after my own heart, hope it's ok to jump in here.

First, let me say, as a sort of friendly warning, that I am not one who likes a weed-free garden. I understand one's garden as being as individual as the ones growing it, though, and have no trouble with those who do feel the need to keep their gardens tidy and free of extraneous green things. I truly do not mean that as condesending as it may come across, honest! <G>

I like to leave all the organic material in the soil and on top that I can, be it from weeds, harvest, what-have-you. To establish new garden plots, I normally use simple lasagne-style layering. Again, my own modification of same. I stopped the double-dig and tilling of soil long ago, and am quite happy with the results. This method helps keep the "new plot" weeds to a minimum, since I am smothering, rather than bringing to germination height, previously dormant weed seeds. This method also lets the existing weeds become great organic material for the digestive soil life to feed on: increasing humus, helping create good tilth, deepening the topsoil under the layerings with almost no real effort on my part. The earthworms and other digestive life in the soil do my work for me, and I have a ready plot to use while they do their stuff underneath it all.

In looking at Pharmer Phil's weedburner, I think that he has one great way of weed control. From discussions on some of the other groups I belong to, I know use of burners can be controversial. I think for what one uses them for, they are great. Especially for those with larger growing areas. By burning the matter above soil level, he is destroying any green that may allow for further growth from rhyzome or such, but adding the ashes to the soil, while allowing the roots of his weeds to further the organic content under soil level. I'd bet anytime he has a hankering to go (ph)ishing, Phil can get himself plenty of nice, fat, sassy worms for bait! <G>

I, myself, so not use a burner. I do, however, do mild weed control (Only for those things that directly interfere with harvest or growth of my domestic plants), that follows the same idea. I cut weeds off at soil level, leave the above ground parts lie, and do not disturb the roots. For the really tenacious things such as grasses and the occasional dock, horsetail, or such, I cut them down if really necessary, then lasagne over them with very thick paper or cardboard foundation layers; if needed, will trench around a grassy area to keep it from invading the garden spot. Most grasses adore getting pulled or dug- it just makes that many for ways for them to spread. We all know what I'm talking about- those daggone things that will propagate themselves from one cenimeter's length of root not gathered and disposed of elsewhere.

For those who either don't mulch, or use mulches and still have weeds, (which I think is pretty much all of us!), using the 10-day rule is one way to handle the task of controlling them without being overwhelmed. The 10 day rule, which I adopted from an article I read years ago and used more religiously when still really concerned about weeding, is simply spending a few minutes each day weeding a section of the garden, planning how much you do daily so that you cover the whole garden about every 10 days.

I have been using my own modifications of the methods of natural (Fukuoka) and synergistic (Hazelip) gardening for some years now, and frankly that has slowed my ability to remember some of the old things I used to do for more intense weed control. But, using lasagne layering and the 10 day rule are pretty much consistant practices for me. I do know that even when I insisted on a neat garden, and thought weeds to be horrible things, those two practices were the foundation of my control methods.

BTW, I have been a fan of Baker Creek for a long time now. It's the first catalogue I even consider buying from each year, my meager budget going to them first before considering other companies. I have yet to be less than Snoopy-dance happy about my choice. deb

[Pharmerphil]

I primarily use the burner for the pre-soil prep in the 25x20 pumpkn plots, just ahead of the vine growth, then follow two days later with the tiller.
I don't obsesse with the weeds either, a few here and there , I mearly top the ones that are heavily burdemed with seeds, the roots bring up such good stuff from a depth, unreachable by cultivated crops.

[flowerpower]

Someone had mentioned Ruth Stout on pg 1. I remember that she always added cottonseed to her beds. Since I have lots of spoiled hay, I have used her method for the past 5-6 yrs. I have never added the cottonseed though. After the second year, you can just pull the hay back and there is the most beautiful soil under there.

Most of the weeds I yank, I give to my goats. Otherwise I just toss them on top of the soil or hay to decompose. Weeds with long taproots do help to break up the soil, but I dig the roots out as much as I can. Dandelion, horseradish, Burdock, Musk Mallow, etc will come back from the smallest piece of root.

Any weeds that do show themselves are then referred to as "Wildflowers". I will let some "weeds" grow in my garden. I will leave a few Goldenrod, NY Asters, Yarrow, Evening Primrose etc as I like the diversity.

[littlechickenfarmer]

I just call my weeds... wildflowers. This is the best way to claim fame.

[prupip]

I have been reading about corn gluten. I wonder if it would leave the Bt+ residue in the soil from the crushed corn. I believe that most of the stuff sold is from GMO corn crops (farmers feed it to the cattle so it is available from the feed stores cheap). It works as a preemergent. Mix into the top 3 inches of soil. It will interfer with seed germination, so use where transplanting. I have read some information that cotton is one of the crops that receives the most intense spray programs. Does this carry on to the cottonseed meal?

[lextra]

Hi! Just wanted to mention that much of the cottenseed meal is GMO now so you might want to check before purchasing...many organic growers have stopped using it because of this...what a shame to lose another soil nutrient to GMOs!

[pollywogdeb]

Of weeds, Gluten, and deep roots

You can find suppliers of organic, non GMO corn gluten, usually through organic garden supply stores. I tried looking for some in Gardens Alive, but found only their own brand of weed stuff. Many members of some of my groups, expecially those in Texas, tell us there are plenty of places to get it. Evidently, Texas has quite the organic population! I can ask and find out the brands and stores, if you'd like. I believe there are online suppliers. I actually think in some threads, such places as Lowe's and Home Depot were even mentioned as carrying it. I tell ya, Texas sure seems different in this regard than SC Iowa!

Corn gluten is a great pre-emergent. When I had a scare about a farmer putting a gmo crop in just across from me a few years ago, I got all kinds of suggestions for "guerrilla action" involving gluten, ranging from the hilarious to the serious (They were serious, not me!). My personal favorite was tying helium balloons around my waist, and floating over the field at night, sprinkling gluten over the newly-seeded sections like so much star dust. <G> I could have been the first confirmed UFO in these parts! Plain old cornmeal is wonderful for eradicating powdery mildew and other moldy nasties, to boot.

Now, to those weeds and domestic crops with deep taproots. I am of the opinion that when you observe what is growing wild in your soil, you can discern what it is your soil needs. For instance, the deep rooted plants, such as dock, dandelion, plantain, and such, are great pioneer plants. Those roots travel deep, bringing moisture and nutrients up to the top 6 inches of soil, where they can be utilized by our domestic plants. While doing that, they are not only physically breaking up the soil underneath, they are also supplying "freeways" as it were, for the digestive organisms in the soil to travel: microbes, grubs, earthworms, etc. These, in turn, utilize the organic matter and gaseous balance supplied by those deep roots to further break the soil up, increase even more the organic content, improve tilth.

When I moved to this preserve 4 years ago, I was given a plot for my garden. It had never been cultivated, and some 20 years ago had been used to store farm equipment on. There were not even many weeds growing in it. It was compacted, and very nearly dead. Every year, bossman had taken some of the aviary litter out and spread it over the top of the plot, had been doing that for 4-5 years or so.

I took a shovel out and did test holes here and there, found that there was, indeed, a thin layer of topsoil, with patches where the soil was even thick as 6 inches or so. Worm population was spotty, less than optimum, but it *was* there in some places. Whew! That gave me hope! I figured I could lay some great lasagne beds down as material and time allowed, deep mulch the rest with some of the rotten hay laying around, and be able to have at least some garden "on top" of the soil, while helping the critters below have a good start on making soil out of that compacted mess. That, alas, wasn't to be.

My boss came out and deep plowed, then disced, the whole plot. He was sincere is his belief he was doing me a huge favor, and I did appreciate his interest in helping, but what he in fact accomplished was burying what little topsoil there was, and bringing up the deep clay- which I later had reason to suspect had not been able to fully leach the petrochemicals out from the time the area was used for parking tractors and other equipment. Out of an area that was about 200 feet by 50 feet, I was able to take an area 20x20', add the best soil I could find from other places, mulch, admend, lasagne until I thought I'd have to fly the Italian Flag over it, and put in a small garden. The rest needed more than I had available for lasagne, I was concerned about chemicals, and I had *no* money and very little time. What little money I had, I put into zeolite to handle poisons in the soil.

So, I planted dock. Nettle. Dandelion. Plantain. I did get hold of 3 pounds of Daikon radish seed, and broadcast it everywhere. Every time I found an earthworm or ten elsewhere, it went straight to the garden plot. For the rest of the summer, and the following summer, I would merely cut the weeds down, leaving them in place and letting those roots go to work. Each year, I made another lasagne bed or two as material and time allowed.

It took one full summer and winter, to the following spring, until I could have a bit more soil to work with. The second summer, a bit more would grow happily. The 3rd summer, almost all of my previously clay, dead, horrible soil was able to grow any daggone thing I wanted to plant. I now have a plot full of life: toads, snakes, birds, insects, volunteer and planted goodies, you name it. There is even a little fox that I can occasionally spot in the bluestem at the border, peaking out at this silly two-legged. She and her friends keep the rodent population down, besides being lovely to glimpse, so she is one of my favorite visitors. <G>

So, radical sort that I am, and realizing this thread is "Those Pesky Weeds!", I must apologetically state that I truly see weeds as allies and friends, rather than pests. And this tale of soil building isn't the only reason- but, I've yakked enough. <G> deb