Bean Beetles

[Mary]

Last year I planted wax beans, didn't get many to eat , but what I was able to pick was delicious. Bean Beetles were so many I couldn't hand pick all of them.The beetles perferred the wax and left my green beans alone for the most part.I saw a advertisement about a product called Pyola, says organic, would take care of the bugs.Does this harm the good bugs, if it does I don't want to use it.Any suggestions ?

_________________ :eek:
Mary -zone 5

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;Sodium Cyanide is organic.-

[Mary]

Hey Zebraman,I've never heard of using Sodium Cyanide? Can you tell me more about it.Do you use it?

__________
Mary

[Mary]

Zebraman, I looked up Sodium Cyanide and I don't think I want to use it ,it doesn't sound safe, it can severely damage the eyes and skin.

___________
Mary zone 5 IL

[redbrick]

Mary, I can't say for certain, but I think Zman was being sarcastic: "Yes cyanide is classified organic, but I'm not gonna use it!" Please note: this is just my guess, his post was rather vague.

Hmm, maybe I'd better clarify MY stance. I'm of the "organic is better" camp. I don't use synthetic fertilizers, herbicides, insecticides, or any other -cides. I do this because I believe that any "man-made" complete solution is, by its nature, incomplete.

That being said, not every solution waving the "organic" banner gets my complete endorsement either. I like to check it out, first, get other gardeners' opinions, do a little research, and use a little common sense to make my decision. Some times, by the time I DO make my decision, the "problem" has already solved itself! Usually, this is in spite of any of my efforts as opposed to because of them! :D

As a BTW, you asked about Pyola. I haven't gotten around to doing any research, but I believe that it's a mix of pyrethrins and Canola oil. Yes, it's organic, but it's also non-selective. Any insect that contacts it WILL be killed by it. The good news is that it only lasts about a day, but the bad news is that the predatory insects it kills would have lasted about a season. :(

I wish I could help you out with your problem, but so far I haven't had any trouble with them. "Course, now I've probably just jinxed myself !:eek:

So, now that you've just gotten more of a reply than you expected (or even needed! :eek: ), I'll just step down from my soapbox. :o

[deb65802]

my favorite pest control is.....1/2 c dead insects
2 c spring water

When insects infest flowers, vegetables or shrubs, identify and
gather the
pests. Collect at least 1/2 cupful. Place in an old blender with the
water.
Blend on high, and then strain out the pulp using a cheesecloth or
fine sieve.
Dilute at a rate of 1/4 cup to 1 cup of water. Pour liquid into a
spray bottle and apply to plants. Will keep up to a year, stored in a
tightly sealed container.

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;The Point I was making is that just because something is organic doesn't make it safe.The main problem with non organic farming is the over use of pesticides that do kill the insects but just about everything else.Also alot of people here are in the same mindset.If they have insect infestations they immediatly want to know which organic poison to use.
The only time I have problems with insects here in Venice is with exotics that shouldn't really be here in this climate.Example Asian Yard Long Beans-attacked by black aphids.Just the beans not the plants.I built a cage with Row cover screening and erradicated the problem.I have never seen these aphids on anything else.
Also last year I got some large Bouquets from a florist in Hollywood and alot of the arrangement I ended up rooting with liquid Hormone.A large Milkweed shrub with Peach sized pods also gets infected with bright Yellow aphids.What I do with them is take Duct Tape wrapped around my hand (backwards) a couple of times.They come right off.Now I could use an organic spray but Why?
I can't stress Bio Dynamics enough to eliminate the majority of insect problems in the first place.These bugs never attack anything else in my garden.
But again the point was just because it is organic doesn't mean its safe or necessary.

[redbrick]

Hey Zman! I thought that was the angle you were heading for! I hope I didn't offend with my take on your post, and it would seem we're pretty much in agreement on the subject, eh? :D

[Mary]

Thanks for your help ,maybe I could use a roll cover for my beans,I thought about using marigolds, sage, etc, I don't like poisons or chemicals either,if I did that it wouldn't be organic ;). Hey , the 1/2 c. insects - 1 c spring water, thanks, I'll see how it works for me .Have a great summer,I'm sure I'll be talking to you all again.I really like this forum.
Mary, zone 5 IL

[zebraman]

Hey Redbrick:None taken.-

[redbrick]

Hi, Mary,

I just found this in the Best of Organic Gardening. I haven't tried it myself, but it should be worth a try. Supposedly, if you interplant potatoes and beans together, you'll confuse both Mexican Bean Beetles and Colorado Potato Beetles. Who knows, it just might work!

[Mary]

Hi redbrick, will have to wait until next year to interplant potatoes and beans. I already planted my potatoes . I put marigolds in between them, next peas ,radishes, turnips, beets, carrots, lettuce, spinach. I 'll plant beans ,onions and tomatoes next.I used my straw bales to make a raised bed and planted asparagus , I know I will have to transplant them when the straw gives way , or maybe the dirt will stay put when I move the bales and put wood or something in its place.When the garden bug hits me I go,can't seem to help it ,I enjoy gardening. Thanks anyway!

_______________
Mary

[Mary]

Hi, Redbrick, Where did you get the book ,the Best of Organic Gardening ? Years ago I had a mag. that came in the mail , it was organic gardening, I looked at the book store, can't find one like I used to get.Is it a mag you get in the mail , if so would you look up the info. on how to order it? Thanks, Mary

[redbrick]

Hi Mary, sorry I don't have better news for you, but I found my copy at a used book store. It's definitely a book, published by Rodale press, made up of various articles from the first fifty years of OG. You know, back when the mag was really helpful and good! Maybe if you contact Rodale or go to www.organicgardening.com/ they can set you up with a copy. Or you could check ebay or amazon.

BTW, I don't think you can buy OG on the newsstand any more. I get mine every other month in the mail. Sadly, it just isn't the same any more, too much fluff.

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;Barnes and Nobles does carry it in their Magazine section but it isn't worth buying.

[Mary]

Hi, Redbrick, and Zebraman, thank you both, guess I'll have to use Mother Earth News,
although it's not as good as the organic mag that came out years ago, and the forums for info .Talk to you later.
Mary

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;Check out Backwoods Home Magazine.I'll look at the Mag.and get the URL.It is a cross between Mother Earth News and Soldier of Fotune.

[Brook]

Just found this thread. Hmmmmm.

First off, Mary, Pyola is a solution of pyrethian (sp) in canola oil. It is the second strongest natual insecticide (right after rotenone), and will kill beneficials as well as baddies. There's another problem though. Virtually all rape seed is now gmo. So, do you want to be spraying that in your garden.

Petunias deter bean beetles. Best are the old-fashioned vining types, but any petunia works. Interplant them about every two feet in your bean row, and you'll seriously reduce the number of beetles.

While we're on the subject, radishes will deter squash (cucumber) beetles, and act as a trap plant for flea beetles.

[Mary]

Hi Brook, No I don't want to use Pyola,thanks for your info, I haven't planted my beans yet so will try Petunias , if my ground ever gets dry enough .We've had a lot of rain and my land sets lower than my neighbors.

Mary

[Mary]

Hi Zebraman , where can I find Backwoods Home mag,have you had time to look up the URL ?I looked at the mall book store , didn't see it.

[zebraman]

Hey Mary; Its www.backwoodshome.com.This really is a great Magazine.

[dirtundernails]

Backwoods Home isn't on the newsstands anymore - not sure why. I think it's on a few, yet, but off most. Libertarian bent and as Zebraman said, a really great magazine. Highly recommend the anthologies.

dun

[Mary]

Hi Zebraman, Thanks, will check it out.I just had my garden plowed up and its been raining again .Don't know when I'll get to plant,my daughter lives in AZ. and the 8th I'm going to go see her , won't be back until the 23rd.Doesn't seem like a very good gardening year for me, we've had a lot of rain and my ground doesn't dry out very well.
Hopefully with the ground worked up it will dry quicker. Maybe I'll find some Orangic seeds or info down there.They have a wonderful store called ( New Frontier) where she buys most of her food, theres not a store around here like it . Mary

[Mary]

Zebraman, just ordered " Backwoodshome mag." Thank You !

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;Thank You I would have missed the Current price for registration on line.And Best of all its Hippy Free!
I just received seeds from NativeSeed/Search which is in Tucson AZ.But if you are in the area you shoud check them out.Also don't forget about growing Celery.It is a marsh plant and will grow really well in your situation.Also it will taste way better if you Don't Blanch it.
Anyway have a Great Trip,Enjoy the weather and just for the record You do not sound old enough to have Grown Children.

[Mary]

Hi Zebraman, I probably won't be down to Tucson ,my daughter lives around Prescott , Chino Valley .Thats a little over an hours drive from Flagstaff .I can hardly wait for the mag. to arrive . I've never planted celery , doesn't it need cool temps.Maybe next year,I do like celery.

Mary

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;Yeah it does need Cool temps.I have it growing in the front yard and it is really lush.Also they have a interesting Forum on Backwoods home website.Less on farming and more on other Homesteading issues.I hope You have a Great Trip.-

[wvorganics]

I have recently graduated fromWest Virginia University in horticulture where I specialized in organic crop production. My project focused on controlling Mexican bean beetle populations in snap/green crops (Phaselous vulgaris). I tried several methods, row cover, staggered plantings, and the release of a parasitic wasp (Pediobius foveolatus). The wasp, now don't get turned off by the term wasp, was the most effective and required little labor. The wasp which is the size of a fruit fly and will not hurt, sting or bother humans or pets in any way, will attack the bean beetle larvae. The female wasps lay eggs inside the beetle larvae, which will stop feeding after 3 days and will appear mummified after about 10 days. The release of this wasp increased my bean yield by almost 50% in seasons with plenty of rain, and 25% in drough like conditions, compared to crops that didn't receive any control methods. It worked so well for my experiement that the university offered free releases local producers, who doubted it at first and were later amazed by the effectiveness of an insect so little.
I highly recommend this for Mexican bean beetles, there is not much out there in terms of sprays etc. that will work long enough to be effective because of resistance build by the beetles, especially rotenone. They are organically approved and ecologically safe. The wasp will be effective wherever Mexican bean beetles are found: snap, dry, wax, and soy. I received my beetles from the NJ Dept. of Ag.
If you need more info. contact me or search the internet for Pediobius foveolatus, you will be amazed too.

[Mary]

Wvorangics, Thank you for the info.its something I'll look in to ,sounds like the wasp would be the best to try.I hope they stay around ,do I need to do something so they will want to stay ?I live in central IL. zone 5 ,is IL. the right envirement for them?When I sign off here I'll look them up on the internet.

[redbrick]

Mary, plant Yarrow, and let the Queen Anne's Lace grow near your garden. The adult wasps depend on them for pollen and nectar.

[Mary]

Zebraman, I was in town and found a copy of " Organic Pest Control- " Back Home", and they had a copy of : Backwoodsman : I bought both of them.They didn't have a copy of 'BackwoodsHome" .But these will be good reading until the mag arrives, I'm guessing that the "BackHome" mag is different than the "backwoodshome" .Talk to you later !

[Mary]

Hi rebrick, Theres a lot of Queen Ann's Lace growing in the lot back of my land,the only thing is the man across the road cuts it twice a year for hay .So much to do to have every thing work together. I only have an acre, maybe I could let part of the back grow wild, just a thought don't know how far I'll get, but sounds like a good idea.Talk to you later!

[wvorganics]

Mary, the only two down falls that this wasp has are 1. its inability to survive the winter, in West Virginia there are no acceptable hosts that overwinter as larvae and it gets too cold for the adults to survive themselves. I would think that Ill. gets too cold also for them to survive the winter, but I'm not 100% sure. As for keeping them for the season, I have not experienced this. If you have a medium- large bean beetle population I wouldn't worry to much. The only reason they would migrate out would be for food, but they will always need the mexican bean beetle larvae to continue their population. They use nectar as a food source and if you have any nectar producing flowers, trees, or weeds then they should stay within the bean crop, they are very social. I planted a row of "benefical bug" wildflower mix at the edge of my plot and had huge wasp populations by the end of the season and greatly reduced bean beetle populations.
2. The other problem associated with this insect would be the shipping costs, it is a living organism, so shipping is always overnight. A good option would be to see if some other producers are interested and ship together to reduce the cost.
Glad to help, in all honesty I didn't think that it would work all that well, but was amazed and impressed 100%

[Mary]

Hi redbrick,hows your garden ,do you still have the brown stink bugs.I don't have them so don't know how to treat the problem.Wish I could help you, I've looked in mags and books, couldn't find anything, will keep trying and let you know if I find a answer.Hope every thing is going well for you.

[OkieDok]

Will this wasp work against flea beetles also?
Thanks,
Okie

[redbrick]

Hi Mary, so far so good! I'm actually about caught up with my veggies! Not sure what I did wrong, LOL!

BTW, I haven't seen any squash bugs yet this season, but then again, it's still early. Last year they showed up for the second wave of tomatoes, about late August, if I remember correctly.

Yes, I really should keep a garden journal, but I found that when I did, I either wrote about what I should have been doing, or did what I should have been writing about!

How's your season shaping up? Hope it's a good one!

[wvorganics]

Will this wasp work against flea beetles also?
Thanks,
Okie
Unfortunatley, no. The best thing for flea beetles is keeping your crop covered with a light row cover until they begin to flower. If you find something better for those pests would you let me know, they are the biggest nuisance in my garden now that I can handle the bean beetles.
Have a good one

[Mary]

Hi Redbrick,I'm a little behind with the garden, but it looks good.While I was gone the deer ate the tops off of three tomato plants.The radishes and strawberries taste so good ,can't wait for the tomatoes.I planted beans after I got back,hope they come up. ;)
Hope your season is a great one ! :D
Mary

[Mary]

WVorganics, Thank you for all the info, I'll try to get along with out the wasp. There is so much good info on this forum I'm going to try some of them.Have a great season !
Mary

[Mary]

Zebraman, have you got backwoodshome magazine yet?

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;Not Yet.I did get the "Solar on Walden Pond" issue that I bought when I got the Sub.I think it is quarterly.Which reminds me I haven't seen my Rare Waterfall Mag either.I'll Call today.-

[Mary]

Zebraman,Sure thought the mag would be here by now,this is the 7th week since I ordered it.Think I'll call .What is the Rare Waterfall Mag like?

[zebraman]

Hay Mary;That should say Rare Waterfowl.Sorry about that.A neighbor and I are interested in introducing Exotics into the Canals here in Venice.Like Wood Ducks and Chinese Mandarins.-

[Brook]

Shows how one man's blizzard is another man's ski trip.

Around hear there ain't nothing exotic about wood ducks. They are native, and we're covered up with them.

But by the same token, sprig (i.e., pintail) are a rare and wonderful sight.

Z. What are the legalities of doing that? And, legalities aside, what about the environmental impact of introducing strangers into the ecosystem?

[Brook]

Just for a comparison, you might talk to any of those Florida canal dwellers who have muscovy ducks all over their backyards. Started the same way, and now the things are pests.

[zebraman]

Hey Brook.#1 The Venice Canals are MAN MADE
#2 The Fish and Game Dept.Said it was Not an Issue.
#3 Wood Ducks and Chinese Mandarins have not lost the migration instinct.We will have to put up nest boxes but already have 14 houses that are willing to have one in their yards.We will have to pinion the wings of the initial pairs but their offspring will not be.So
they will not be a problem.We already have Mallards and Muscovy and Grey and African Geese,Which by the way are Not indigenous.We are on the Eastern Flyway and get quite alot of Exotics in the winter.-

[Mary]

Hi Zebraman,I sent a e-mail to Backwoodshome customer service yesterday, they said the mag would arrive any day.I noticed they have a forum, do you know any thing about it,I was going to register but decided to wait for my mag.Hope every thing is going well for you.

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;Life is really great here.We usually have the Marine layer in June(Overcast)ALL month.But not this year.Clear Blue skies and hot.Just the way I like it.
I have been on their forum for a couple of months.Their forum is great for info on non gardening but it is somewhat inactive.Also by following the forum it is obvious that most people do not subscribe to the Mag.-

[Mary]

Sounds great,glad you are having a great season.I think its a good idea to encourage waterfowl.

[Mary]

I got Backwoodshome today, it has a article on Walden Pond, the solar version, part two.I haven't had time to read it yet.I like the mag,very little ads,lots to read.Backhome mag is good also, I find it at the news stand.Have you received you copy?

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;Not yet,but being on the coast means I'll get it in a couple of days after everyone else.Does Backhome have a website?

[Mary]

Yes it does,www.BackHomemagazine.com. I like it,so far I have been able to get it without ordering.

[winter_unfazed]

Are BackHome and Backwoods Home put out by the same press?

[dirtundernails]

Back Home is published by Wordsworth Communications, Inc. 116 W.Blue Ridge Rd., East Flat Rock, NC 28726.
Backwoods Home Magazine is self published. Backwoods Home Magazine, Inc. 29304 Ellensburg Ave., Gold Beach, OR 97444.

dun

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;I just got it Today (With the Boat on the cover).Oh well its still a great Magazine.-

[Mary]

Great! I really like it,lots of good info,I'm surprised it has so many recipes.Don't want quite so many and more info,but its still better than most magazines.I'm glad you told me about it,thanks again!

[Mary]

I was reading in an older (Organic Way to Plant Protection) book I found at a used book store, --years ago farmers made a spray from the extract of common basil or sweet basil for potato bugs.Another method, cover the potato seed with soil,then cover the soil with one foot of straw and hay. The potato can grow through the mulch but the bug whose eggs winter over in the soil cannot climb up through the the heavy mulch.I did plant my potatoes seeds this way,so far no bugs. On one of my potato plants where the bloom was there is a marble size green ball,what is it? Hope the mulch method works, haven't tried the spray.Happy fourth everyone!

[redbrick]

That ball is a seed pod. Rarely do they produce seed that will produce worthwhile potatoes, but then again, who knows? You may be holding the next Yukon Gold or Russian Banana! Talk about high aspirations!

[zebraman]

Hey Mary;The last issue didn't have any recipes in it.this is just a single issue thing.-

[Mary]

What do I do with the seed pod?Does it turn brown and little seeds come out,very interesting to see what I can do with it,maybe put the seeds in the cold frame and see what happens!Maybe nothing but I like to try new things.Thanks redbrick!
zebraman, thats what I thought,good to hear.

[redbrick]

Good question, Mary! The answer is... I haven't a clue! I never tried it myself. Your idea sounds reasonable enough, give it a try!

[zebraman]

Hey Guys;Too Bad Brook left in a huff because "National Meeting of Muscovy Duck breeders in ROLLA,MO.for info contact Lawrence Mertz 573-699-4805 or e-mail llmertz@fidnet.com