Immigrant farm workers?

[HillsideDigger]

This subject is certainly political and involves food.

It occurs to me that large farming operations are allowed a strong competitive advantage over smaller (family) farming operations by being able to employ, legal or not, those who will endure harsh and dangerous conditions for a minor wage. For one thing 'harsh and dangerous' refers to exposure to high levels of farm chemicals.

Its seems if the abundant cheap labor were not available to allow the factory farming, then those who farm with better practices might be able to earn a better return

food might cost the public more

but, it might be better food.

I cannot imagine a good outcome to the immigrant dilemna.

[CruzAK]

I agree. I've seen many an employer hire migrant workers that were very questionable. They say that they only hire 'legal' workers, but what that actually means is That the card/#/name the worker is currently using is currently coming up as legal/not stolen. When the card/# eventually comes up as stolen/missing/etc. the employer notifies the worker, 'fires' them then rehires them under another card/#/name that the worker is able to obtain within a few hours to a few days. The big corporate farms are the worst. They like to hire the migrants because they work hard for little wage, they seldome complain or file any complaints with the labor board(fear of deportation) and are easily replacible if they get sick or injured. These people are just a piece of meat to these big outfits. The saddest part is that so many people are against illegals coming to this country, and want them to get out, but they dont realize that most of the food they are buying, the restaurants they are eating in, the businesses/homes that are being cleaned, the houses that are being built, are all made possible by the illegal alien. If people wanted no ilegals in this country then they should all boycott the business that hire them. No eating out at restaurants, no buying produce unless it is local, seasonal, and organic, no buying a new home, do not hire any cleaning services, no gardeners, etc. I am not condoning the fact that people are coming into our country illegaly and do want some sort of reform to happen, although no one seems to have come up with anything functional yet. The facts are that these people do perform valuable services for us and we couldn't get along without them.

[dirtundernails]

Shhhhh! one must not mention such things, or you might get branded as predjudiced. :confused:

Don't anyone get me wrong. Many of those who are migrant workers have a real work ethic, and there are too many citizens who somehow think that the government owes them _insert_name_of_handout_here.
Iffin I had may way, I would trade in two lazy citizens for every hard worker from any country!

As for "couldn't get along without them", that is true, right up to the point that we eliminate the welfare state and so called "unemployment". There are enough people (citizens) who would and could do these job, but they only lack "incentive". Hunger us usually a great motivator, but hey, who wants to do manual labor for not much pay, when you can sit on your backside and get such nice gub'mint goodies....

And for another lesson in the farm economics about to come, go to wal-mart and look at the lovely talapia (fish).... turn the package over. Commie fish. One would think they would at least send us Red Snapper! :p

Overall, what is about to come is an economic adjustment of proportions unlike anything this living generation has ever seen. Soon, there will be plenty of citizen applicants for any and every job that still exists at whatever level of pay.

Welp, I am gonna shut my mouth aforin I stick my size 12's in any further.

Hubby of Dun.

[JereGettle]

Mexican Jere HERE!

I am legal though..... :)

[zebraman]

Hey Guys;You are missing a Major point here.Illegal Aliens are the closest thing we have to legalized slavery.I know alot of Buiseness owners that LOVE the fact that the Govt.isn't enforcing the laws.Way more profit!And besides this does nothing to My standard of living.I live in a neighborhood that they can't afford.Just Like in Mexico.Wealthy people in Mx.do not live in border squalor.
Of course if you have a job that they will do for minimum wage then that is what you will Have to be willing to do as well.
And not to mention All the really cool ENDANGERED live animals you can buy openly on the streets in downtown LA that a pet store would get closed and prosecuted but not them.So that is at least one benefit that they have brought to LA.
OK, it is a downside if you live in an older part of the City where they can afford to live ,but then again that is Not my problem!

[tashak]

Out of curiosity, I've read some of the newspaper and unemployment office posted ads here in NW NV that seem posted to meet the requirement by the government that jobs be posted before employer declares no US citizen is available.
The posted farm ads state seasonal length, live on site, imply male only, specify lift and carry 150 lbs, etc.

[CruzAK]

Sorry H of DUN, I was not trying to come across as prejudice. I have seen first hand the lives these people lead, the hard work they do, and the living conditions they put up with. I have tried first hand to train highschool and college age kids a decent enough work ethic so they could do the work these people do. The bottom line was, The kids Quit! after 2 weeks. they couldnt handle the hard work. They wanted to do something easier like bank teller or pet store clerk, and working on the weekend???! forget it. Driscolls straberries, Foxy lettuce and some of the other major growers(big commercial outfits) in my area have tried to hire good old blue blooded american workers, They went around to local unemployment offices, posted ads and handed out fliers to people standing in line there. They got a total of 5 applicants for their field worker jobs paying $7.00-9.00 per hour (living wage inthis area is $13. per hr.) Guess what???....only 1 or 2 of these unemployment office, desperate for work people even showed up and they both quit after the first day. The work was too hard. The employers who hire these hispanic workers(many are from South America also, not just Mexico) legal or otherwise need people who will do the hard work necessary to bring the crops in, wash the millions of dishes, clean the bathrooms. Its long hours of back breaking work. Most people born in this country are never taught a good work ethic. They have certain stigmas about certain types of work. I agree with HD that we need a dose of reality, Big farms not only get awaywith "illegal" hiring practices, they also are getting government subsidies to boot. Smaller farms dont qualify for these free government handouts.
BTW I make it my lifelong policy to stay away from W-mart. IMO theyare one of the most evil stores in the USA. And the also have the hiring oversites I stated in my previous post. Especially in CA.Just my opinion.

[dirtundernails]

Hiya CruzAK.

BIG misunderstanding. I dont think you were being predjudice at all.... I was saying that if one even brings up certain subjects, and takes a "politiacally unpopular stance" you might well get branded with the P word. I grew up in S. Texas, as a minority. ( where I grew up, white anglo saxon protestant WAS and IS the minority! ) My best freind growing up was Mexican. We had some freinds in South Dakota that were from Guadalajara. Nuff Said.

I agree with your observations. The mexicans, in this case, are some of the most hard working and trustworthy people I know. Their culture is definitely different, but, I really enjoy the people and the culture. I would gladly trade all the wimpy worthless looking for a handout "citizens" of this or any other country for those who work as hard as most of the legal and "undocumented" workers.

I tell my kids that digging a hole is the only job where you start at the top. If someone won't shovel S**t, clean toilets, pick fruit, collect garbage, or whatever else needs be done, then they should just go hungry. The welfare / unemployment nonsense in this country is a joke. The politico's steal from the hard workers, and give to the lazy or "claimed infirm" all too easily.

Here in Douglas county, it seems there are more people on so called disability than not. I am amazed to see them doing things when no one is watching that tell me they could certainly hold a real job, if they wanted too. But, they are collecting their monthly check, and complaing how it is never enough. Yeesh. Don't even get me started on that subject. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Did you ever see the movie "The Gods must be crazy"? Well, we also call WalMart "The Evil Store" with the same voice as "the evil thing" in that movie.

And, as for farm subsiudies, I am just completely against them. period. What the farmer needs is not a government gaurantee, but a fair marketplace. You cannot get that if you allow importation of goods from other countries where the cost of living and therefore production is so low. The farmers have to be able to set the price based on what it costs to produce the goods, and, everyone down the line has to adjust to that. That likely means that joe and jane consumer will have to spend a bit more on food, and therefore have less to blow on cheap garbage at the evil store.
It also means that farmers who do stupid things, like, go too far into debt, might end up going broke.... Just like anyone who gets in that situation. (We won't even get into the evils of usury here.) :mad:

Every business should be playing on the same field, with the same rules. But, a lack of short ropes and tall trees has allowed the country to be run by the graft givers and receivers, to the detriment of us all.

Welp, my blood pressure monitor is starting to sound alarms, so I am gonna go eat some very old grapes that went all bad and got put in a bottle.

------ ahhh, that's better. ------ :D

[CruzAK]

Yes, I enjoyed that movie. Sorry DUN, to get your blood boiling on this one, I agree withwhat youare saying. I wish I knew what could be done that would help everyone. I just do what I can within my sphere of influence. Definitely not out to condemn anyone here, just giving my opinion.

[Cliff Timmons]

What part of "illegal" do people not understand?

[dirtundernails]

Probably the "legal" part.

There are those who refuse to obey the law, and, our politico's WILL NOT do anything but turn a blind eye.
Likey, because big business wants the cheap labor, and, there are some of those who being of mexican heritage are a vocal and powerful political force. So, any attempt to stem the "illeagal" tide gets those who would try and stop the illeagals branded with the "P" word.

I have no problem with the _people_ who come here to WORK, as like any HUMAN BEING, they are desperately trying to make a better life, and will take considerable risk to do so. They are the ones that I would trade the lazy citizens for... The criminal type are another matter...

If the Government was SERIOUS about stopping the tide of those crossing the borders, they could erect a wall, similar to what was in Berlin, at a reasonable cost. Think state and federal prisoners on a chain gang, and manual labor, in the desert heat.... I mean, what else have these people got to do all day... (How's that for a politically incorrect veiwpoint. Shucks, it might even deter crime a bit if people knew they woiuld get wall duty.) Make it fairly straightforward for the decent and hardworking people to get in, and get serious tough on those who hire undocumented workers, so that for every violation, it would have been much cheaper to hire 20 unionized american unemployed auto workers at their normal rate..... ( Owwch! ) Also make it so that the documentation is not easily forgable, and the employer only has to certify the documents with a simple phone call or web site. Once an "approval" is issued, and a verification issued, the employer is off the hook if the documents were forged. If they did not verify, then they get to pay one very interesting penalty.

What is happening on the border that is most disturbing, is the drug traffic and criminal types who are coming in in droves.... they terrorize the landowners and citizens who live near the border, cut fences, leave trash, destroy property, and god help anyone who tries to stop them. There are places in CA, AZ, NM, and TX. That you really, really don't want to be, at any tine of day or night....

Those who provide the "services" (coyote) should be imprisoned for several years. Take the profit out, for everyone who tries to do it illeagally, and you have a possible workable solution.

That leaves us with plenty of jobs that need be filled that many lazy american's won't do.

Then, those that do come in, get to work. But, no... zero... zilch... goverment benifits or welfare of any kind. And, make the exemption that anyone born in this country to a citizen of another country shares citizenship with the parent, and is not automatically an american citizen, unless certain conditions were met.

Oh well, that's just one set of ideas... I'm certain there are many ways to make it work, bit no one in washington has the guts to even try.

Hod.

[tashak]

There's an article in this morning's Nevada Appeal about a temporary jobs agency that uses the government's Basic Employment Verification Pilot Program to see if job applicants are US authorized to work.




An article in this morning's Nevada Appeal mentions one employment agency that uses the Basic Employment Verification Pilot Program to see if job applicants are legally permitted to work in the US. Amazingly, it goes on to state that this temp job agency "is the only business in Carson City registered with this free federal program, according to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services" and goes on to state that "Researchers from the Pew Hispanic Center estimate that nearly 10 percent of Nevada's work force consisted of illegal immigrants in 2004, more than double the national figure."
What I find amazing is that this city (pop. now over 50,000) with all its casinos, hotels and motels, supermarkets, business cleaning services, several factories, etc. doesn't have more using the free service. But then as another has said, NV has often been twenty or more years behind the time.
One doesn't really expect a small time carwash to know about it, or really be computerized, but national chain stores and other large business?

[CruzAK]

Well said DUN/Hod, The whole idea being to try and keep the employment opportunities available mainly to our own citizens then have a controlled situation of guest workers available for many jobs that are hard to fill. Either way, the workers will be documented, and receive a fair wage and better treatment, crimnals will be put to good use, lazy Americans wont be able to complain that the mexicans are taking all the jobs, And employers who decide to thumb their nose at the laws of our country will be fairly compensated for their trouble. And how about 1 more thing, farms found to be hiring undocumented workers will lose any and all government funding they receive(forever), which could be substantial when it is levied against all the companies that are owned by the same parent company(think chain store suppliers for Safeway, Vons, Nob hill etc), And pay 1/3 their profit for the year. Ok maybe I'm rambling on a bit here, but it would be nice to be able to give the small farmers a boost so They can make a living too. BTW I wonder how well that system in NV was advertised to businesses?

[Cliff Timmons]

Great posts!

I am all for legal immigration. They made this country great. Not the diversity they brought but the common thread that they had. That whole diversity is great crap is a whole other thread. But I will say, it's what we have in common that really makes this country great. bla bla bla,.... sorry.

I agree that we need to go after the people who are hiring these folks as well. But securing the border is the first thing. Before you can begin baleing out a boat, it would be nice to plug the hole.

[Bellepepper]

DUN, I agree with the "Berlin Wall". But remember why it worked. Anyone trying to get over the wall was shot dead. I am sure our law inforcement and military would be glad to "do their job" but the public just would not allow it. Any more than allow those poor guys in the "correction" facilities to build the wall.

What really got MY blood pressure up is when I was at Wal-Mart the other day, I had fat free Premium crackers on my grocery list. I stood there looking at the display of all kinds of Premium crackers and COULD NOT READ THE LABLE. It pi$$es me off that they even print part of the lable in Spanish but for crying out loud, put the English side out. Why should I have to pick up the box and turn it over to read what kind of crackers they are?

Too early in the morning for "grapes gone bad" so I guess I'll go plant something.

[SunflowerMeg]

I'm for legal immigration as well. Go through the process like everyone else who is "obeying the law"; get in line and wait. Illegal is illegal...i.e., breaking the law. Employers break the law, as well, by hiring illegals. I know people who went through the immigration process legally. It took time, but they did it. It is not fair to those who follow the law and who pay taxes. Why should others be able to skip the "legalization process" and not pay taxes while still expecting our system to support them. Seems to me that is a right that is earned by following the law, not by breaking it. Our welfare system also needs to be gotten rid of and started back from scratch to help only the truly needy - not the truly lazy or truly illegal. When I was young, as in 22 years young, I was broke and living in Florida and went and picked oranges for a day. It was the hardest work I ever did and never went back, and I wasn't a sissy...I always considered myself a hard worker, and so did my employers. Of course, it's something you'd get use to if you were hungry enough and knew Uncle Sugar wasn't going to feed you for free, then there'd be a lot more people who'd get use to hard work again. People in SOME other countries are more willing to work harder for their meals.

[CruzAK]

some interesting articles on this subject.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/04/12/undocumented_workers_contribute_plenty/

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20060410-0711-ca-immigration-farming.html

[zebraman]

Hey Cruzak;Both of these articles were written by Hippie Socialist Losers.The first one points out that if someone who has broken the law and has continued to break said law for five or more years well then they should be rewarded and allowed to become legal.Why not take advantage of their strong Work Ethic,Round them up put them in chains and force them to build the Wall between US and Mexico.
And when theyr'e done they can "Swim Home".

[Cliff Timmons]

Woo Hoo Zeb!

[flowerpower]

Zebraman, you are too much. LOL

I don't think anyone who is here illegally should complain about anything. Anytime they don't like it, they can go back to their country. If I went to another country where I couldn't speak the language, I'd be washing dishes too.

[dirtundernails]

I really don't understand why the politicians would make it so that any previous lawbreaking would be "rewarded" in any form or fashion.... Maybe, they will extend such logic to other types of crime as well. YEAH! GREAT IDEA!

That's the biggest problem in washington Most of congress is composed of LAWYERS, so actually expecting THEM to know right from wrong is hopeful at best. We cannot even legally attempt to clone Rep. Ron Paul.

Of course, on the wall idea.... How many people were shot trying to get IN to east germany? I think that a wall would be an appropos symbol of the "freedom" of our beloved Fatherlan.... Uh,... Homeland.

I had a lot more to "say", but, since one cannot see my facial expression or hear the tone in my voice, I decided to not go there. Dry smart a** humor frequently does not play well in print. So, I will leave the part about liberating mexico out, as well as other suggestions as to dealing with this, in the same manner that we deal with "problems" on the other side of the planet.... ( I have not finished my first cup o' joe yet, so apply the brain fog factor to my posting this morn. )

Hod.

[Ohiogal]

I'm really jaded about what our elected officials won't/will do. Let me preface what I next say with that. I think the ONLY reason why they want to "legalize" the illegals on a sliding scale is so that they can start tracking them and in the process, tax them. I look for the RFID industry to grow by leaps once there is a bill passed. How else will you prevent falsifications of papers between the ranks of the "newly legalized"? And what better way to start this initiative? Apply it to the very people who can't speak for themselves! They will STILL be sold into slavery...

Whomever said that this was the beginning of a large economic adjustment is totally correct. With companies like GM and Delphi struggling to stay afloat, and having to eliminate the "entitlement" mentality, ($60 an hour jobs and benefits on top of that), the labor in this country is about to take a giant step backward. Once the unions are hobbled or eliminated, there will be less and less power to the American worker, especially those who have little education and do not have a skilled trade.

Legalizing the aliens will just give big business another outlet to tap a cheap labor source. Suddenly "outsourcing" won't look as good as they will have a steady and ready supply right here. And these opinions are coming from a person who traditionally was a Republican. :)

I collected unemployment in 2001 when I lost my job after 9/11. Prior to that I had work 22 years without a break and paid a lot of tax dollars. I was grateful for the help. It took me 5 months to find a job in the computer field and UNEMP allowed me to keep my house. I agree we have abusers, but not everyone is a free-loader and not everyone makes a career out of staying at home. Its a misnomer to think that UNEMP allows that. Now Welfare recipients, that is another story. In my county, they passed a law stating that after 3 years on Welfare, a person was forced off the roles automatically. They had 3 years of FREE training and housing, food stamps, etc. What happens now is the case workers automatically waive their release from the program every Jan 1. So the roles of those who are on Welfare, that make a living off of it, never get reduced.

You can't beat a system that is set up with redundancy in favor of the person drawing the funds. Its how our gov't works...there are other examples. The immigrants are going to be treated the same. So Johnny, hold onto your job, here they come.

[Cheesecake]

Hello...Im new here...and....

I agree with you....
In a land of laws, what part (as said above) of illegal do our politicians not understand?

I understand compassion ..... but, what has been in the newspapers and on TV, of late..........I'm beginning to think the ''movement'' to take back what Mexico still thinks is theres, is ''on it's way to winning''.....

I was raised in California, in a town founded by Mexican Immigrants....a GreatGreatGranddaughter of these immigrants, taught me four years of Spanish............none of them, ever expected things to be like they are now....ever.

[Cliff Timmons]

Don't get me going on the polititions.
Conservative, Liberal, Republican, Democrate,..... all the same on the immigration issue.

The Dems want the minority vote, the Reps want a cheap work force.

[Bellepepper]

Wonder why no one has ever mentioned boycotting Mexican tourist attractions. Acapoco, Can Coon and others take in millions of US $ from the tourist. Also, boycotting any car or pickup assembled in Mexico. If enough US people would do that, the Mexican Government might help us securing the border. As it is now, Mexico needs the income from the illegals. Heard it is their 3rd largest source of income.

[zebraman]

Hey Guys;What you need to do is boycott American Co.'s that employ Illegal workers to let them know that you don't appreciate them making more profit at the expense of the American middle class.A city wide boycott isn't that hard to do.Also understand that illegals in food service Do Not get health screening as this would alert authorities that they are working in said restuarant.So when you realize that the Owners are willing to risk your health as well as that of your families(For more profit) then why would you want to eat there?

[LoreD]

The corporate propoganda people have been presenting the concept that illegals are only taking jobs that Americans don't want. A friend of mine and her husband ran a small landscaping company that employed members of their family. They paid a decent wage, provided insurance, and summer jobs for their children and their friends. Their small company could not compete with companies that paid day labor wages of minimum wage with no benefits. They are in their 50's and are trying to find a job with benefits.

86% of the people working in the landscaping industry are illegals.

Also, during the Clinton administration a program was enacted in the IRS to trace SS# and in one year one millions bogus SS# were turned over to employers for investigation. In 2001 the Chamber of Commerce requested that this program end because it infringed on business interests.

The Mexican goverment prints pamphlets to be handed out that explain the best ways to avoid paying taxes and even gives advice on how to avoid border security. I do not agree with the Minuteman project because I believe that governments regulate border activity, but I was shocked when President Fox filed a protest with the Bush administration that these people who were watching the border were "interfering with rights of Mexican citizens to cross the border."


LoreD

[zebraman]

Hey I agree with LoreD;Those Damm Hippie Socialist Losers.And the Minutemen are doing this because they Don't want to have to speak Spanish.If you can read this,Thank a Teacher!And if you can read this in English,Thank a Soldier.

[LoreD]

Zebraman:

Since you replied to my post I temporarily removed you from my ignore list so I could read your post. I am a liberal who voted for Ralph Nader and my problem with illegal immigration is that it is a direct attack on my socialist beliefs. I believe in the rights of labor and that these people are being used to break the unions in this country. Since I have explained that I will put you back on my ignore list.

Also, since you were to young to remember the hippie movement many of these gentle, sweet, and giving people were my friends and still are my friends and I consider the continuous attacks on these people by a man who was in elementary school at the time as very childish.

LoreD

[zebraman]

Hey Earth to Lored;If I was on your Ignore list You would not have seen this post.And You Do understand that by putting people on your ignore list that You don't agree with you will eventually be looking at a blank screen?And Yes I agree with You Hippies are the Worst!

[LoreD]

Zebraman:

I am really tired of every time I post on this site you keep attempting to force a verbal altercation with me. It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. My best lifelong friend is a right wing republican. I have read with interest the posts from others with differing opinions with respect and have never trivialized them with flippant responses. You once even suggested that I stop posting on the political and off-topic sections.

I have made my dislike for you quite evident before this point. Usually, when people don't get along they leave each other alone. You won't go away and leave me alone.

I am going inactive from site and I am never coming back. You can mark me down as another one that you drove off this site.

LoreD

[mrtomatoexpres]

hi i do not mind people coming here if there legal.but our goverment and big business wants illegal immigrants. low wages more money for the big boys and we have to pay more for what ever we buy.why not give the jobs to unemployed and people on welfar? ho they would have to pay them more then what the illegals get less for the big boys. in today post or dailynews the front page said newyork says ok to illegal immigrants to become americans. what really po's me we have to buy almost everything not made in america. what ever happened to proud to be american? were i live its mostly illegals working in the fruit stores. :mad: mean while i get fired for having ankle surgery and my union did nothing for me. i can not get anyone to fight for me. oh i forgot iam american,italian :mad: :mad: :mad:

[GreenCap]

Dang Zebra Another one bites the dust..............

[zebraman]

Hey GreenCap;What other ones?

[GreenCap]

Philosopher, LoreD, you know, the fun ones ;) some people take the internet way too seriously.

[zebraman]

Hey GreenCap;Just so you were thinking about moving the 9,000. a month house has rented and it also required a 5 year lease.-

[GreenCap]

WOW! Just curious, was there room for a garden? For 9000 a month I better be able to stick my toes in the ocean from my backdoor! And here I was complaining about my mortgage 7 acres, fruit trees,woods, and the sweet smell of dung in the air all for under 500 a month. :D

[zebraman]

Hey GreenCap;Of course there is No room for a garden.The House is a block east of me and I cant see the Ocean,I can hear the waves at night from the deck off my bedroom.You can't get anything in LA for 500 a month.The rent for this place is actually 8,975.00 which is WAY OVERPRICED.Well maybe Not.-

[GreenCap]

I knew you were gonna say there was no room for a garden :) I would love to be close to the ocean. I used to live in Florida and I miss the sound of the waves but it is to expensive. I am a capricorn and I am too thrifty :D (cheap) I watch that show real housewives of orange county and they make me laugh, please tell me that all LA women are not THAT shallow....lol.

[zebraman]

Hey GreenCap;I too am a Capricorn,Jan.11,'59.So I understand about wanting a good deal,but I also make a ridiculous amount of money for what I do.I don't watch the show but I do know about Shallow in LA.In LA if a woman is beautiful and Stacked,what would she need brains for anyway?All the Pretty people move here chasing "The Dream".-

[Maggymary]

There is a school district near us that requires all high school students to do 35 hours of manual, physical labor each year of high school to graduate. Many of these kids think working on the farm would be an easy form of work until they arrive and see what we do each day. A few years ago one boy was complaining of how heavy the hay was and then my 11 yr. old daughter picked up two bails and tossed them up on the wagon load. He quit that day. "It is just not natural for someone to have to work that hard." was his excuse. Hmmmm.
Maggy

[GreenCap]

That is funny Maggy, I am glad you are teaching your daughter how to be a tough girl! I get plenty of looks at work when I sling an 80 lb sack of water softener pellets on my shoulder like nothing ;) Hey Zebra if you make great money you might as well enjoy it, right? I saw on tv recently, a show predicting that a tsunami would hit the west coast sometime soon, I don't believe everything I hear but maybe to be safe you ought to take some of that money and buy some property out here in the real world. If you sold your house you could have about a zillion acres out here.....just think of the garden you could have :) You could leave those hippies behind and join us hillbillies :p eeeek just the thought :eek: You are probably too cool for us Zebra :cool: and besides what would you do without all those shallow women?........lol

[zebraman]

Hey Greencap;I already own 200+ acres in Edwards County,TX.It is the West end of the "Hill Country"at the base of the Edwards Plateau.The main reason I live here besides work is because I HATE Winter!
You have No Idea how much fun you can have with Shallow Women.I often ask Anorexic women "when their baby is due"?Or I say Excuse me,'Maam.Never a Dull moment.

[JackiMac]

Capricorns UNITE! LOL I'd NEVER make it in LA....not enough "stack" and too many brains....or so I'm told ;) I AM blonde tho' :D
Personally, I feel a special "bond" with the hippies of the 60's and 70's :cool:

[zebraman]

Hey JackiMac;How are You?Yeah I don't Know any dumb Goats either.I too had the fantasy until I moved to Taos,NM.in the early 80's.Shattered the illusions.
I did however receive an order from Abundant Life Seeds.They did send something I didn't order and were really quick to send replacement which I got Yesterday.
I also received Catalog from Seed Dreams.They have over 100 var.s of beans and alot of other Veg.s as well.Contact Tessa Gowans at gowantoseed@yahoo.com and request the list.Most everything that is listed in SSE 06 yearbook as LQ or MR is on their list for sale.
And for the record most of the Shallow Women weren't stacked before their surgery either.

[JackiMac]

Thanks for asking Z! I've been better....my little boy got into some poke weed (after we visited my great aunt and hearing her talk about making poke salad) he decided to try some....fresh leaves. He spent a few days in the hospital - luckily, I took a stem to the emergency room with us and the doctor identified it and was able to treat Connor without any delay. Scared the hoodooies out of me tho'! I thought I had killed all that stuff off when we moved into the house 6 yrs ago....guess it either came back or I missed that little patch. I'll bet he doesn't eat anything else without my approval anymore !

Glad Abundant Life took care of you...I've had good luck with those folks and would have hated to hear of them doing you wrong :)
I also sent an email to Tessa and hope to hear back from her or get the list in the mail. I have heard a number of good things about the Seed Dreams people =)

In my heart....I'm an old time hippy and tree hugger...don't hold it against me tho' :p

LOL....those stacked,shallow women in LA don't know it yet but gravity and time get the best of them no matter how many surgeons they have! :rolleyes:
Careful Z, or those women may "rope" you in :p

[Cliff Timmons]

In MY heart, I've learned to tolerate hippys.

Some of them are good scrappers.
And some of the men too.<grin>

[GreenCap]

Jacki I just found some pokeweed out front last week. Did your boy get real sick? I thought I read somewhere that it had some medicinal properties. My daughter is always trying to taste stuff, she makes me nervous. Capricorns RULE.....lol! I am a tree hugger, I love the dirt, ever since I was a little girl all my friends would be playing house or dolls and I'd be outside in the mud playing with my matchbox cars :D I certainly wouldn't fit in in LA. It is beautiful though. So Z are you planning on moving to Texas someday? No winter there that's for sure. 200 acres :eek: I thought you ordered a lot of seeds now, you will be keeping these seed companies on thier toes....lol.I kinda like hibernating in the winter, our winters don't seem to be as bad as they used to though. Yeah I can see those shallow women in about 10 years all leathery and no facial movement from all the botox, saggy everything but perfectly round cans.....lol! :rolleyes: Is that politically incorrect??? LMAO

[zebraman]

Hey Greencap;Yes I plan on moving in the next 2-3 years.They do get a hard freeze about every 10 years.The only time I have been to Ohio was in the Eighties,used to produce Punk Rock Bands.Hated the music but the "Show" was alot of fun.Anyway a friend (Base Player)Mother died and we went to the Funeral.It was in a small town called Dunkirk.I believe it was near Toledo,maybe south/east.It was overcast the entire time we were there.The house was really old,had a basement,most houses don't here.It was rather dreary and depressing.

[mrtomatoexpres]

hi green miss my matchbox cars lost about 30 in the sand. i went in the water and came back do not now were i buried them oh well. :( jacli hope the little guy is ok :)

[HOD]

NO winter in Texas, huh? Yeesh. Froze my backside off. Grew up in San Antonio.
Give me South Dakota, 30 below and dry over 30 and freezing drizzle ANY day.
Damp cold is much more chilling to my old bones that dry bitter cold, imo.

Summer, otoh, is miseralble down there. Too much humid heat for too long.
Like the Balance here in Misery... Uh, Missouri.

Cheers!
Hod.

[JackiMac]

Thanks for all your well wishes :) The berries he ate did the damage...the leaves are also poisonous but to a lesser degree but he ate those as well....luckily he only got down maybe 5 or 6 berries before he came running into the house with red hands,mouth and chin(I thought it was blood at first)the red came from the berries. Poke salad is made from this plant if the leaves are boiled and rinsed....maybe 3 or 4 times before serving. The berries and roots are used for other things...can't remember what right now but the berries can and do kill animals (birds seem to be immune to the poison).
I put this plant right up there with foxglove...it's a no-no for my yard. I had thought about growing Henbane and a couple of other medicinal plants - to help with my arthritic ankles - but after doing more research.....I'll stick with OTC or prescribed med's and less toxic medicinals for now ;)
In my other life...before becoming a Mom....I was a Toxicology Tech. and that helps with what goes and what can stay in the yard....also, I have connections at a couple of the local labs in town and I can get almost anything analyzed in a matter of minutes....when this happened to Connor I had 2 Toxicologist's on both cell phones ready and waiting! LOL
Greencap-I don't know how old your kids are but I'd get rid of the poke weed unless they are old enough to understand not EVERYTHING can be eaten.

Hey HOD - try spending your summers here in the deep south....you'll change your mind about Missouri - I THINK :rolleyes:

[HOD]

Glad your munchkin is fine. We have to keep our 2 year old under constant surveylance, as he is just a bit too adventurous at times.

I spent many a summer in the "deep south". (Not the "Old South") Grew up in south Tx. Miserable hot and humid for too long, but not _quite_ as bad as Alabama for the most part. Winter was almost pleasant, except for the few weeks of wet damp cold. Yech. Dry cold, ( Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota. ) was bitter cold at times, but the dry nature made it not as bad, to my old bones anyway, as the damp cold.
I don't think I could stand the North East with the long cold damp winters...

Anyway, having lived in a number of places, I think that the four seasons in Missouri are about as good as one gets, if you actually want all four seasons.
Yes, there is some hot and humid, and some damp cold, but overall it is a good balance of climate, without all the fruits and nuts of some places. (Hey, ZMan!)

So, how's that for going off topic?

Anyway... Back to the topic of immagrant farm workers.
Got this news flash today...

>> >>Mexican Earthquake
>> >>
>> >>A big earthquake with the strength of 8.1 on the Richter scale hits
>> >>Mexico.
>> >>
>> >>Two million Mexicans have died and over a million are injured.
>> >>
>> >>The country is totally ruined and the government doesn't know where
>> >>to start with asking for help to rebuild.
>> >>
>> >>The rest of the world is in shock.
>> >>
>> >>Canada is sending troopers to help the Mexican army control the riots.
>> >>
>> >>Saudi Arabia is sending oil.
>> >>
>> >>Other Latin American countries are sending supplies.
>> >>
>> >>The European community (except France) is sending food and money.
>> >>
>> >>The United States, not to be outdone, is sending two million
>> >>replacement Mexicans.


Hod. :D

[Cliff Timmons]

Alabama is allright. I went to Basic Training there YEARS ago.
You'd love it there, if you don't mind chewing tobacco.
All the wimmins down there chew Levi Garrett. <grin>

I'll stick with the Ozarks of Missouri.

Can someone hide me from the folks from Alabama?

[mrtomatoexpres]

hud lol that was great do you want to be the pres. :) :D :p

[JereGettle]

...

[zebraman]

Hey Jere;Good Point.This certainly Backfired on the Televised Protest Marches.Most of America that was undecided before tthe marches became inflamed seeing millions of Mexicans protesting and Not Doing "The Jobs Americans Wont DO".And the Mexican Flag was quickly replaced to American Flags when they saw the reaction from the Country.They insured that we will get "THE WALL"!

[dirtundernails]

Hey, "THE WALL" scares me for some reason I can't quite explain.

[Cliff Timmons]

I hate the idea of a wall as well.
I think the same thing can be done with a couple thousand pittbulls and a mine field. <grin>

[HOD]

Think, BERLIN. That wall was to keep those pesky west germans out of the communist paradise on the other side!

Methinks the real answer to the problem is soon to be at hand.
When this fiat currency house of cards called the american economy comes tumbiling down, and the dollar is inflated to the same value as the old Reichmark, the problem will be solved... Except for mexico, who will be trying to keep all those undocumented workers out.


Hod.

[Cheesecake]

Stop illegal invasion: Put gators on border



Joe Kovaks
Posted: May 19, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

The top stories in America this week are simply astounding.

First, illegal aliens continue to invade the United States seemingly at will, as our elected clowns (aka the president and Congress) remain gutless in their attempts to stem the tide. Gonads are apparently out of stock in Washington when it comes to deporting illegals and building a barrier along the entire southern border with Mexico.

Meanwhile, alligators are on the prowl in Florida, threatening anything that moves, from people to puppy dogs. As far as I can tell, the critters have no apparent new hatred for humans. They're just doing what comes naturally when encroached upon.

Both these problems have received plenty of media coverage, and have left much of America in a panic. So what's the nation to do? How can the republic survive? After about 10 seconds of deep thought, the answer is obvious.

Put the alligators on the border.

Yes, finally a solution that has some teeth. Lots and lots of teeth.


The new faces of U.S. Border Patrol agents? (pix of alligators)


Simply transplant a large sample of Florida's reptile populace (the meanest, nastiest looking buggers) along a path from Texas to California.

Let's just see how fast the illegal invaders "vamanos" when faced with the killer smiles of the four-legged American welcoming committee. Let's see if they still want to reclaim the Southwest if the new kids on the block want to have them over for dinner, or dessert.

Watch the flood of human traffic into America evaporate, as you can bet many Mexicans will be making a new run for the border – the border with Guatemala, that is.

Florida residents will breathe a sigh of relief, knowing the chances of encountering a giant reptile on the shuffleboard court or by the pool while sipping morning coffee or juice in their underwear will be greatly reduced.

Animal-rights activists might even be thankful that many of these so-called "nuisance gators" will no longer be rounded up for slaughter. They will merely be drafted for a new, patriotic mission: to proudly serve the nation that has served their thriving population for so long.

No more exploitation by tourists at gator parks. No more marshmallows tossed by airboat operators.

Of course, this brilliant idea does entail some bold challenges, such as evacuating hundreds of swamp-dwelling creatures in an orderly fashion. Why not employ New Orleans Mayor Ray "Chocolate" Nagin who still has dozens of moisture-packed school buses at his disposal?

Where would the gators reside? The Rio Grande already serves as a natural moat along much of the border. It could then be extended with a little digging project, a task much easier than construction of a giant wall.

Who could dig it? Why not tap illegal aliens? They love to do the work Americans supposedly don't wish to do, at a bargain rate no less.

But I have a feeling this is one job for which Americans would actually rush to pick up a shovel, and dig with a big, toothy grin.





Source (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50268)

When the email came with your posts...I had to drop in with a few of my friends........ :eek:

[zebraman]

Hey Guys;Look on the Bright side.When the Country gets a clue and starts deporting all the Illegal Alien Gangbangers back to Mexico They will have 12k miles of Blank Canvas in which to Spray Paint.And then Mexico will look just like the American Ghetto's that they currently reside in.-

[mrtomatoexpres]

zebraman for vicepres. :p :) :D

[winter_unfazed]

BORDER POLICY SET TO NURSERY RHYME

1-2. Quit bringing them through (stop encouraging illegal immigrants)

3-4. Shut the door (close the border)

5-6. Pick up sp*cs. (Deport ones already here.) La palabra sp*cs, cuando usado aqui, refiere solo a los inmigrantes ilegales y no es intendado ser un insulto a la raza mexicana o a todos Latinos.)

7-8. Lay them straight (help them to get their communities together down there, and they won't need to come here)

9-10. The media spin! (that's just something that happens; ignore it)

[Cliff Timmons]

Amen

[mrtomatoexpres]

ok maybe winter for visepres sorry zebraman :) :p :D

[johno]

Just curious; has anyone read the June/July issue of Mother Earth News, page 8?

Winter unfazed - "help them get to their communities together down there..."
What if the mexicans in Mexico were to organize rallies like they do here in an effort to take control of their own communities? My friend Sergio tells me this would be a bloodbath. He also says that Mexico would be a wealthy nation if it weren't for corrupt government officials stealing from the poor...

Thoughts, comments?

[mrtomatoexpres]

i agree johno my aunt she is mexican she said the same thing corrupt gov. :)

[redbrick]

Several weeks ago NPR ran a series of stories relating to Central American emigre'es and the different impacts of the situation. What struck me is the fact that most non-Mexican illegal emigre'es are extremely persecuted while traveling through Mexico, by Mexican officials and police. The persecution ran the spectrum of graft, extortion, theft, rape, murder, slavery, etc. The least of this type of treatment is what Mexico vilifies the USA for in the treatment of Mexican illegals, and the most is far worse!

If we tried to help these foreign communities, would our help be welcome? Would it even make it to the communities in question, or rather into the bank roll of some politico? I agree with the basic premise, but I just don't see it being practical. Just my two cents.

[Cliff Timmons]

Several weeks ago NPR ran a series of stories relating to Central American emigre'es and the different impacts of the situation. What struck me is the fact that most non-Mexican illegal emigre'es are extremely persecuted while traveling through Mexico, by Mexican officials and police. The persecution ran the spectrum of graft, extortion, theft, rape, murder, slavery, etc. The least of this type of treatment is what Mexico vilifies the USA for in the treatment of Mexican illegals, and the most is far worse!



I know first hand about that, and you are spot on redbrick. I work for Immigration here in Springfield and the stories that Guatemalans and other Central Americans tell about the Mexican government is just that.

[April]

If the gov't would start enforcing the law...illegal immigration would be a thing of the past. But Big Business and the Chamber of Commerce want illegal immigrants, so nothing will be done. It's that simple, IMO.

[mrtomatoexpres]

you said it april :) do you watch linktv they had a show one dead fish the gov screwed the line fishermen big business screwed them to if you want a copy on vhs i will copy for you :)

[Cliff Timmons]

If the gov't would start enforcing the law...illegal immigration would be a thing of the past. But Big Business and the Chamber of Commerce want illegal immigrants, so nothing will be done. It's that simple, IMO.

You got it.
Democrats want the votes.
Republicans want the work force.

[Islewolf]

This is one topic I shouldn't get in on as I have a front row seat, but I'll put my two cents in anyways.
Businesses want to keep the cheap labor that doesn't complain about things like long hours, or poor working environment. On one hand I feel sorry for them, because businesses can walk all over them and they can't say a thing because they are illegal, on the other hand I have a hard time getting a job, even with a degree, because they want everyone to be bi-lingual. Why do I have to learn to be bi-lingual in my own country, they need to be bi-lingual too. And once you get a bunch of non-English speaking people in a facility you can't hire English speaking people anymore, because the can't communicate with them, and that includes supervisors and managers. So they do take the jobs Americans want in the end.
It's a stinky issue.

[April]

Big Business and the Chamber of Commerce support republicans over democrats 2 to 1.

If employers were fined heavily for employing illegal aliens....the jobs for them would dry up. No jobs, no illegal aliens. Which means that the employers would have to start paying decent wages with benefits. Which means that the cost of our produce would go up an estimated 1%. Sounds worth it to me.

[mrtomatoexpres]

your right april if i have to pay a little more who cares :)

[Cliff Timmons]

Big Business and the Chamber of Commerce support republicans over democrats 2 to 1. .

Yeah, but it's hard to find someone tough on immigration on either side of the isle.

[johno]

I know there are a lot of, ahem... bad seeds coming from south of the border, but in regards to the honest, hard working mexicans, am I the only one who thinks they have more right to be on this continent than we honkeys? I think there should be a way to sponsor the ones we like into getting some kind of work visa so they can come and go legally (and pay taxes, and earn a decent wage so they aren't stealing jobs, etc.) As for the bad seeds, if no one wants to speak for them, let them stay home or put them in jail.

[johno]

Oh, and by all means, I think they should have to learn English...

[Cliff Timmons]

Legal, legal, legal immigration is a good thing.
Did I say legal? <grin>

[johno]

In a country ruled for the people by the people, the people have authority over the laws. This means we can change the laws that no longer apply to current situations through legislation reform.

It also means that when we are on a jury, we have the power to not uphold a law we feel is wrong - this is called jury nullification. This power has been hidden from the American public by the bar association for about a century, as I understand it, but that's another story. If you don't believe me, look it up. Just beware that you might have to look long and hard...

The point is that we the people are not intended to have one set of rules written in stone 'til the end of time. If it's a law we don't like, we can change it.

[Cliff Timmons]

I agree wholeheartedly.
Then they would be legal and we would be discussing migratory patterns and not immigration. <grin>

[johno]

Cliff, you are a card! :D

[Cliff Timmons]

My wife has other names for me.

[Soapymomma]

where does my impact responsibility begin and end ........
walmart, is to an extent a scourge...... they underpay and dont give benefits.... yes they are truely an Arkansas corporation , they have that mindset ....that cheap is good .... BUT"they" wouldnt be a multi billion dollar company if people werent looking for EXACTLY what they supply, cheap products, with no regards to country of origin ....
or as we say in our house Cheap plastic Carp... except we dont use the fish word....

illegals.... walmart swears they dont employ any, so does tyson ( both ark. largest employers in the state)

ok , thats bull hockey, , cause i used to run a restaraunt, and yeah its easy to employ illegasl , cause they buy paperstht look real, and you dont find out till months later, when you file your payroll taxes they are bogus, or the govt doesnt want you to know this, but theres 6 others using that same numbers, and thier system until recently wasnt tracking THAT TyPE of fraud.......scary , huh....

let me tell you theres nothing like working in an industry where 90% of the workers are immigrants to open your eyes to some of this stuff....
i was ordered by my supervisrs to pay the immigrants less, cause they couldnt do all the jobs, due to language( like cashering, and order taking) i had a couple of kids, of imms employed by me, and the kids spoke just fine, i was still told to pay them less, cause the rest of the family worked there and its not"fair" otherwise, to the parents to be makign less than the kids .....
i had 25 employees, al l the supervisors were white, all my casheirs were white, the rest were hispanic.... i was told to continue to hire hispanics only , for production positions to ensure profitability of the company, and my bonuses were based on thatbottom line ..., so on paper i had a vested interest to underpay......
most of the people i hired had been here for years... and for many it was a family tradition , come to the us , work for 3-5 years then go "home"
interesting huh ......

this gets back to my original issue, i live 36 miles from bentonville ark. the capital and home of wm..... other than the "dollar stores" which are just as bad with the imported junk , i have no other place less than 30 miles away to shop....the closest non walmart store is target, thats roughly 43 miles from me....
my truck gets roughly 15 miles to a gallon , so to shop somewhere other than walmart i have to spend 18.00 just to get there and back....

[Soapymomma]

ok , and to continue my rant ......
we now own a construction company .....
a lot of our available workforce is immigrant, and because to get the job we have to be cheap , and bob the skilled guy wont work for less than 18.00 an hour , yet pedro and juan will work for 8.00 each , and two guys are faster than one ......
and betty homeowner wont pay more than 4k to get her roof done , cause 15 years ago when she got it done it was only $3,500.00

where do you think that puts me ......
and i NEED the 500.00 profit this roof is gonna give me so i can pay my bills.. buy gas to get more work , etc......

just think about it ......


i think you need to be willing to pay more for better quality, and you yes YOU , the consumer, sometimes have to spend more on american labor, and o n gas, and yes , sometimes you order online and wait a few days for delvery , rather than go to the big smiley face and pick it up today .....

[April]

Soapymomma...I do sometimes order online, and I don't shop at the evil blue box. I refuse. I buy locally, even if it's slightly more expensive...and it usually is slightly more expensive. For food in season, I stop at local roadside stands, or buy from local farmer's markets. For clothes, I shop second hand stores, and for other stuff I need, too. Or I Freecycle. I'm willing to pay more for better quality, and I'd much prefer to support local agriculture and stores, etc. At farmstands...I'm paying less than supermarket prices. And no, Illegal immigrants aren't harvesting the produce on these very small farms.

To paraphrase Jon Stewart, with regard to Wally World..."should a refrigerator cost $3?" I hope that people who shop there realise that they're a part of this problem.

I wouldn't dream of hiring a contractor who used illegal immigrants as workers. It's against the law, and would make me as liable as the contractor who hired them if La Migra came by.

I've got nothing against, and have only praise for, those who come here legally....I have one really close friend from France who jumped through all manner of hoops to immigrate, get and keep her green card, and become a citizen legally, and some of those hoops were so onerous it cost her a couple of jobs. She wasn't permitted to leave the US for 2 years, and couldn't visit her family. She still did it, though. Today she is a naturalised citizen of the US, and I'm proud of her. She did it the right way.

If big agri-business, and big business in general were willing to pay a decent wage and benefits...they would have no shortage of labour. But they aren't, because they're greedy, and have absolutely no sense of civic duty or loyalty to their country. They're bad corporate citizens.

The only reason illegal immigrants come here to do the "jobs americans won't do" is because those jobs are extremely low paying and w/o benefits. What if no illegal immigrants existed to staff these jobs? The employers would have to start obeying wage laws, and pay higher wages and benefits, wouldn't they? What if the gov't. started very heavily fining employers who hire illegal immigrants? I think the problem would then go away on it's own. No jobs, no illegal immigrants.

[mrtomatoexpres]

amen to both of you soapy and april read what i wrote about how i got fired and the union did nothing for me i got fired for having surgery on my ankle :mad:

[Ohiogal]

Two things need to happen to stop this tide. 1) Stop giving the children of illegals who are born here automatic citizenship. 2) Stop giving them free healthcare. Those are the two main incentives.
If they get these low paying jobs, and then don't have healthcare, they have to go home as they will be bankrupt. If they give birth here, and they still have no rights, then there is no incentive to come here. Basically they will be like squatters - and even though they don't have rights here in the US, they do have rights in Mexico (or Guatemala, or wherever) to make a living in their own countries. I'm for legal immigration - very much against our corporations making a buck off the illegals. Basically they are slaves and pawns of the greedy American corporation who hires them.

[Cliff Timmons]

Cut the money,... even "low paying jobs Americans won't take".
That's why they are here. That and to find wimmins.

[HillsideDigger]

Funny thing is, here in a rural Southern area where many Northern manufacturing businesses relocated 50 to 80 years ago (thinking they were going to a low paying 3rd. world like area)

these same manufacturing businesses, recently announcing they are leaving this area for Mexico

are finding the Mexican workers have largely relocated here and so the available workers are here and the factories are announcing they have revised their plans so as to remain here to employee the immigrants that are here.

I read yesterday where better than 10% of Mexicans and Central Americans (about 30% if you just count workers) have moved to the USA just in the last 10 years.

Bad, anyway you look at it.

[mrtomatoexpres]

your right ohiogal and hillside you ain't kidding same up here in nyc :mad:

[winter_unfazed]

Perhaps it's good that factories are relocating down there; it will help keep them there and not encourage them to come over illegally.

I think that even worse than the shoppers buying the cheap items is the shoppers who are giving approval to inflation by purchasing things at the high price for which they are sold. Inflation is, ironically, CAUSED partly by increases in the minimum wage, according to some economists; that is what Larry Burkett believed. He said that the minimum wage should have been $2.95 in 1998 but had been over-inflated.

[johno]

Does anyone here think they could have lived on $2.95 an hour in 1998? Can anyone here honestly live on 6 0r 7 dollars an hour today?

[Lavandula Girl]

There's an article in the DC paper today about people in Fairfax Cty, VA getting housing subsidies if they make $90,000 or less!!!!! With buying a house so expensive, can you imagine what rent must be like? Of course, everywhere isn't so expensive, but the jobs aren't there, either. It boggles the mind that anyone would think that inflation can be controlled by buying cheap and paying cheaper. Some may espouse the joys of paying Walmart prices for everything, but if you're making minimum wage, you can't even afford Walmart. And why would you choose to buy what is basically disposable clothing, furniture and other goods (Walmart quality) if you can get something better? Not to mention the fact that paying into the cheapo mentality just forces more production jobs overseas, because the only way those items can be marketed that cheaply is by having them made in countries that allow sweatshop labor legally. Places like Walmart and other big box stores may wrap everything in US flags and americana schtick, but they all have tags sewn on by Indonesian 8 year olds. This then feeds our inflation problem once again.... duh.

[johno]

Halleluja El Gee!

[tashak]

Anyone else read The Walmart Effect?

[mrtomatoexpres]

johno i make a big 140.00 a week its still 125.00 a week never got the raise :mad:

[johno]

I can't imagine living on that much here, let alone NYC! I don't know how you do it.

If employers obeyed the law and didn't hire illegals, do you think you would be in a better position to demand more money?

[Lavandula Girl]

Holy guacamole, Mr.Tomatoexpress! Is that for 40 or more hours? Isn't that illegal? I've spent a lot of time in NYC - can't imagine even getting around the city for that little, let alone eating and living somewhere, garden or no! I am in awe.