Baby Copperhead in Garden - HELP!

[RaspberryFlyer]

I have a 12 inch pot that I grow lemon balm in, since alot of herbs will just take over your garden if you let them. I put the pot on top of the bed, as if I were growing the plant in the bed, but yet it is contained in the pot and thus easier to control.


Anyway, I went lifting the pot up, and found an eight inch, baby copperhead snake underneath it!


I grabbed a shovel and tried to smash the snake's head, but it ran into my squash vines (which are already quite large). I never could find it again, but it is definitely somewhere in my vegetable garden.


I'm an organic gardener, so dumping poison on my garden is not acceptable.


What can I do?


Thank you in advance for your help.

[terrianne]

I love my reptile friends..and am not familiar with the Copperhead. I entered Copperhead in on a search engine....well...venomous and usually will avoid human contact...most people are bit when trying to kill them or handle them.

I guess I would consult my local animal control...with one baby found...there are probably more....they like to live in compost piles...stone walls...etc...

I would definitely not attempt to kill it. They are most active at night from what I can see.

Get advice from a local expert on how to clean up your garden area and make it less attractive to this Copperhead family. :)

[PhilosopherStorm]

I don't know that I would agree with the "avoid human contact" part.. In my own experience (and the southern folk wisdom) copperheads are one of the most aggressive snakes out there.. They move quick and do not hesitate to strike.

Talk to locals find out how they deal with copperheads..

Cats and dogs both will attack them, but of course the other side of the coin is that copperheads will attack cats and dogs also..

[JereGettle]

I have been bitten by a copperhead a few years ago, when they strike many people (like me) do not feel them.

shortly afterwards a swollen leg and a light fever, nothing fatal in general.

I had lite syptoms for about 10 days.

wear boots and watch where your put your hands, they are generally not to agressive.

[Grozit]

The above post is your best advice. Be sure to keep any small pets away from any area that may have a population as it can be fatal. Here in the Northern Neck of Virginia I have a problem with black widows on the bottom of squash/pumpkins and they are much more difficult to spot. Look before you reach!

[gbheath]

In our country community we see and kill several copperheads a year -- two in the last two days in my flower bed in front of my house. I've heard the old tale repeated many times -- "where there's one, there's another" -- but this is the first time we've found the tale to be true. Over the years I have found copperheads to be non-aggressive, but they are known around here as 'sneaky snakes'. They blend with the terrain; they hide under fallen leaves, at the base of trees and plants, and under wheelbarrows or pots, as in your case. A friend found one over his head in a tree, and we've found several in our garage/barn where mice also habitate. We don't kill the non-venomous snakes (rat snakes, etc), but I don't want a poisonous snake in my vegetable garden if it can be helped, especially if grandchildren are around. I usually carry a hoe or stick and try to wear protective shoes & gloves as I work around my plants (who am I fooling!? too many close calls & I'm in my flip-flops!). Usually if you poke around you can move the snakes out of the brush you will be working in. We see more snakes at the beginning of the warm season when they are coming out of hibernation, and then again at the beginning of the cool weather when they are searching for their winter home. Sometimes I think people mistake the words 'copperheads' and 'cottonmouths' -- my sister is one. Cottonmouths certainly are aggressive, are larger, much more poisonous and will strike quickly. You've gotten good advice and information in other messages and I'm just adding my bits of experience. My two medium-sized dogs have been bitten a total of 3 times and survived with vet's treatment. The vet wouldn't guarantee, but said usually the dogs will survive anyway with no more than swelling and a bad headache for a couple of days, and in any case dogs certainly fare much better than humans. Oh, one other thing. In the garage we've moved copperheads out of hiding places with wasp spray -- and then were able to eliminate them.

[Jodi]

first off an 8 inch isn't what I consider a baby copperhead!

Are you sure it is a copperhead or a corn snake? People that aren't familiar with snakes can confuse the two unknowingly! But there is a big difference. Find yourself pictures to compare and get specifics.

Snakes are good but not copperheads. . .at least around gardens, homes, barns, livestock and children. Here we cannot really relocate copperheads so distroying them us the usual protection; thankfully only one, but he was living under the house and was very large for a copperhead. Chickens can also be helpful. Some people like guinea hens. . .I'm not a fan, cause I moved to the country for peace and quiet; not to say they don't have a place.

Black snakes are good protection for rodents and copperheads. So having one or several is a big help. . .if you can keep them away from your small animals. And yes, keep all things cleaned up and obviously visible. no holes under the house, steps, extra weeks around garden plants, no brush/wood/leaf piles that are near well used areas. Also keep things mowed back further than you think you should for extra barrier/sight distance (helps with all pests). Underbrush along areas that people and animals usually are active needs to be cut back. No plants running up the side of the house or laying on the house. And never be out in garden at dawn or dusk without boots and extra lighting to see EXACTLY where you are putting feet or hands.

Also keep all water supplies covered or dumped to limit snake and insect populating. If you have creaks, ponds, or the like expect snakes!

If you want to try to relocate. . .try calling a vet that deals with exotic pets. Not that they should be pets, but they may know someone that knows how to safely deal with these snakes and also also NOT keep as a pet that cares about their well being and knows of a place to let them live safely the snake and for the people.

Oh yes, I almost forgot. . .snakes will be more active than you think in cooler weather. I've seen very active snakes in March and you are still wearing a jacket!

Hope this is helpful. Remember if it really is 8-inches-- it ain't no baby!

And another thing. . .
prayer is the biggest safeguard!

[Silent]

It's a little late but I thought I would post some helpful tips on keeping snakes out of your garden; things I learned from my grandparents and which seem to help. At least, I've yet to find a snake in my garden!

My grandfather used to lay chickenwire down around the perimeter of the garden, he used the long staples to hold it down flat; since he didn't mow the grass too short he could mow right over it. According to him snakes wouldn't cross over the wire. My grandmother would scatter eggshells around the garden because she said snakes and soft-pawed critters wouldn't walk on them and that they would eventually break down and be beneficial to the soil and plants.

Perhaps these are old wive's tales but they worked well for my grandparents and they've worked well for me also.

[Okie]

I know this is a little late, but I just found this site when my Baker Creek Catalog came today. Yep, an 8" copperhead is no baby! A copperhead much larger than a size 8 hat band is huge, at least here in Copperhead heaven. Got bit by one a couple years ago while doing something stupid (herding cattle in my flip flops). Spent a long night in intensive care with all those wires stuck to me and machines beeping and buzzing. Got bit on the foot and my leg swelled up the size of a cow's hind leg and turned blue, black, green, and purple. The Mrs. was so upset I asked the young Dr. to tell her that no body ever dies from copperhead bites. He said quietly so she didn't hear that I better tell her that lie myself. Caught the culprit and most of his buddies under the stock tank a couple weeks later when I could get around pretty good. They make wonderfull hatbands at Christmas time.

[wilderness1989]

I ranched in SW Missouri for several years and have experience with Copper Heads. From my dealings they are very aggressive and usually in pairs. Fence rows and under pieces of corrugated metal roofing and such is where I've found them mostly. They like to stay in places where they can find mice and other small vermin. A friend was bitten by one near his well and spent a day in the hospital....a word to the wise!
John Gray

[Cliff Timmons]

The easiest way to get rid of copperheads is with a long handled hoe. :D

I like snakes and have transplanted several to our garden and around. I love black snakes, king snakes and the like, but rattlers, copperheads, and cottonmouths must die around our farm.

Believe it or not, our chickens keep the little snakes thinned out pretty well, but attract the king and black snakes with their eggs. So we have to beat the snakes to the eggs everyday.

[Cheri Cason]

I have caught snakes in my garden by leaving duct tape out... sticky side UP.

[Cliff Timmons]

I have caught snakes in my garden by leaving duct tape out... sticky side UP.

You have not. That's not possible,..... is it?

[Cheri Cason]

You have not. That's not possible,..... is it?
Of course it's possible. Have you ever tried it?

[Cliff Timmons]

Nope. But I might try it. Does it hurt the snake, or just stick'um there?
Because most of our snakes here are "good" ones.

OK, I'm weird. :D

[Pat]

I have always had a moderate amount of snakes in my garden and in my manure pile behind the barn.(I've found eggs) Possibly I've been lucky, but in 25+ years of gardening, I've never been bitten. Some have been black snakes, some garter, possibly a few copperheads. When we encounter each other, we both recoil and go somewhere else for awhile. Live and let live with blessings.

[ceresone]

Dont know Mr. Gray, but i sure do agree with both his posts i've seen so far. seems here in mo. copperheads always travel in pairs--unless it is a baby--then you might find 10 or more-whick i have.
agree on choice of books too, Ruth Stout, (have 4 ) and Carla Emory. now, how do i get my man to read a gardening book?

[Cheri Cason]

Nope. But I might try it. Does it hurt the snake, or just stick'um there?
Because most of our snakes here are "good" ones.

OK, I'm weird. :D

It sticks 'em there. I suppose you could try peeling them off (I never have).. I was addressing the copperhead situation. :)

[ipaintedmyhousewhite]

I was struck at by a copperhead and I didn't even touch it, and I wasn't gardening. I was talking to it because I thought it was a toad (I saw only its head through the leaves of low plants). It went for me. I wasn't even stooping over it, I was standing erect (holding a toddler, I'll add). So in my experience, they are aggressive. When this happened, the snake took off into a hole which a friend filled with dirt. We never saw the snake again. I don't know if that's a sensible way to deal with it, but that's what we did. I have no love for the venomous snakes, but then, I have two very small children running around.

[Cliff Timmons]

I'm kinda' worried about someone talking to a toad. ;) :D

Just kidding. :D

[ceresone]

YOU dont talk to toads?? lol--now, i find that weird.
but then, i talk to my king snakes too, you should see them rear their heads up when i'm on the mower and tell them to identify themselves!!guess they'd rather raise their heads than lose them.

[Cliff Timmons]

Ya'll are nuts,........ but I like nuts. :D

[ipaintedmyhousewhite]

LOL

[Susannah]

Sometimes people mistake baby black snakes for copperheads because they are ignorant of the other features of vipers. If you find a bunch of baby snakes together on a pile of leaves, grass or brush they are probably baby blacksnakes. Baby blacksnakes have markings where the adults do not and an 8" baby blacksnake will have these marks. Also, copperheads are loners. They don't move much so that's why they surprise you. They aren't very efficient hunters because of that. Blaksnakes can be aggressive too when defending themselves, like any animal (or human), and once I even saw one rattle its tale in the leaves to mimick a rattlesnake (which was strange because I live in Maryland). Also, the myth about blacksnakes and copperheads mating is ridiculous when you think about it. Blacksnakes are constrictors and lay eggs. Copperheads are vipers and hatch their eggs inside their bodies for live birth. It would be the same as a cat and dog mating.

I think putting tape or sticky traps down is very cruel. If you want to keep snakes out of your garden try laying mothballs around the perimeter or black pepper. Also keep the grass and weeds down and just be carefull picking up pots. Sometimes we need to kill to defend ourselves, but most of the time we should try and coexist with God's creatures and learn about them and appreciate them.

[Stumpy]

Those are common here, and grow much larger than 8 inches. In fact, one was discovered at my sister's house which was almost a state record. We found one in the dog house. I hope you find him and have an axe handy.

[Train]

Ya!
Hire a snake charmer!
Even if he fails to charm the snake
you can invite your friends for an afternnoon
even, Heheh. Serve with cocktails.
Train

[FritzDaKat]

Cant count how many 5" pink bellied baby Blacksnakes I've had the pleasure of meeting around here, seems they had an excellent breeding season. Seriously so bad I find myself raking leaves as gently as I can for fear of hurting the lil' guy's. But then it's also been a great year for those tiny blue lizards. God I love it down here. :D

My thought on it, they like warmth and moisture which brings to my mind a large water cooler bottle left out on its side so the snake can try using it as shelter but would also make for an safely and easily relocatable "Snake carrier" provided you carry it bottle mouth up. At least I'd try something similar like a 3' length of tubular concrete form with a bottom, create an ideal habitat for the snake within when you know you've got one around and when it goes in, just flip the tube up on end??
Aaaaaand I'd wear welders gloves just to be on the safe side.

[springfever]

The one up close and personal experience I had with a copperhead was in , of all places, my chicken pen. It had actually come out from under the chicken house, coiled and was ready to strike so fast I couldn't believe it. It was small but it scared me and it had to go to snake hell. A friend was just bitten recently when he, stupidly, walked outside, at night in flip flops. Had to go to the hospital, in lots of pain and was sick. Even small copperheads will strike instead of crawl away like some snakes.

[fruits&nuts]

If you found one baby you almost certainly have more. The small ones like to live in crevices under rocks or small holes in the ground. Look for their lair and try to get all of them.

[camochef]

Growing up in Northern N.J. I spent a lot of time in the mountains of Harriman Park and Bear Mountain in New York State. Ran into many copperheads and rattlers. Copperheads are not an aggressive snake, and according to the rangers in the park are rather slow. Seems most people that get bit by them, get bit in the butt when they try to sit on them! Not so with rattlers, or cottonmouths both of which are aggresive snakes. I've had my share of confrontations with both, including large fast sidewinders in Death Valley and a ravine full of them in Nevada.
Experts say that you can smell a copperhead, smells like cucumbers! Of course that won't help if he's in your cucumber patch! Also, should mention that baby copperheads actually are more poisonous that full sized adults, and a lot harder to see.
I recall reading years ago in field and stream or outdoor life or one of them, where you take a spark plug wire from your vehicle and attach it to the area where you were bit and the voltage somehow neutralizes the poison. Could be difficult to do if your alone and have just been bitten in the butt from sitting on a copperhead! If your not alone, I guess you can find out how good a friend you have. This is supposed to work on all types of poisonous creatures. I can only say that my only run in with a sparkplug wire was in my youth, when I got zapped touching one and I came up so fast that I hit my head on the prong that sticks out of the hood, which dropped me to the ground with a gaping wound in my head! Even though I wasn't bit by anything poisonous, I still had to go to the hospital to have my head stitched!
Alertness pays, so "Be Prepared!"
Camo

[GrannieB]

Yup,it's that time of year when they start hunting a winter den. I know this but every year I'm out there working in the yard with my head up my b.....um...in the clouds:rolleyes: and forget to keep an eye out for them.

'Bout 3 yrs ago I was sweeping up leaves around the greenhouse wearing some of those cheapy rubber sandels from the $ store and socks. I must have been raking and tramping around there for 20-30 minutes before I noticed the copperhead(about a ft. & half long...biggest one I'd ever seen:eek:). He coud have gotten me any time . It blended in so well with the leaves,I didn't see it until it made a dash for open area. I ran got my neighbor and he dispatched it with a sharpshooter....and I went in for some fresh undies:D.

I lost my oldest dog to snake bite. My vet said,it's generally not the venom that kills them rather the infection from the wound. I still have 4 boston terrors and out of the 4,only ones been smart enough to keep his distance from snakes. We found the two youngest playing toss and tug-a-war with a small one. Of course my dogs never get into trouble unless it's the weekend or after hours.:(

[woodsrunner]

As a rule, those who are bitten by a poisonous snake are either trying to kill the snake or at least were aware of the snake's location. Few are bitten who are totally unaware of a snake being there.

Here in Florida we have really big Cottonmouths, Eastern Diamondback Rattlers and Coral Snakes. Copperheads are found only in a very small section of two ajoining counties which share a really unique and unusual geologic landform feature. Even with our high snake population-and really big snakes-very few people are bitten on an annual basis. It is rare to have a death here from a snake bite. Alligators, sharks, stinging insects such as yellowjackets and hornets and lightning are the dangerous things to watch out for! I killed two really big Cottonmouths here at my house close to the garden a couple of weeks ago. If I knew how to post photos on the Board I would put these up to show what a big Florida Cottonmouth looks like!

[TexGardenGirl]

I remember reading once that if you're going to die from a pit viper bite it'll happen in the first 30 seconds (meaning that you are one of the unlucky people who's allergic to it and you go into anaphylactic shock). If you survive the first few minutes, you should survive even outdoors in a survival situation, as long as you have access to water, enough shelter not to freeze to death, and no other bad luck befalls you! Same goes for big dogs, and even for most small dogs & cats, unless they get an exceptionally big dose. (I don't think this holds for other poisonous snakes, or even some of the other vipers found elsewhere in the world.)
That being said, you will possibly get very sick and be in a lot of pain. For days. Snake venom is no joke for anyone. But usually not deadly, so if you get bit, don't panic, keep your wits about you & think the situation through & you'll be fine. And if it's your animal, call the vet first and discuss whether you really need to take the animal in. (GrannieB is right - these things always happen on weekends & holidays.) They will probably say yes, but they kind of have to because what if they said it's no big deal & then the animal is one of the exceptions & dies - but you can discuss it nicely & read between the lines. I know when I was a vet technician, we would try to subtly communicate the real situation while still covering our butts against the possibility it was really worse than it sounded.

And as far as the seeming contradictions between various reports about whether copperheads are aggressive or not - I suspect part of the difference in people's perceptions is that copperheads are usually really well-camouflaged, so you may have been unknowingly antagonizing the snake for awhile and only became aware of it as it decided to strike. The one encounter I had with one I pulled up a low tree branch and quickly stuck my other hand & face under it very close to the ground. I was reaching to pick up something which happened to be right next to a coiled-up copperhead. Fortunately I saw it even as I was moving toward it, but I managed to get my face within about 6 inches of it. It didn't even move until I started backing away, & it basically just turned its head a little to look at me better. I checked on it later (from a distance) and it was still there.
I imagine it varies some from one copperhead to the next too, just like some people get mad instantly, and others let everything roll off their back unless really provoked.

[springfever]

Am I the only one reading this that truly dislikes snakes of any kind? I am just curious. I don't care if you guys have them where you live , live and let live, but I don't want any kind around me. It seems like a lot of you truly like them, are not afraid of them and go so far as to encourage them. I am so trying to reconcile myself with that idea (smile).

[Stumpy]

Springfever, I don't particularly like snakes, but I won't kill little green snakes or king snakes. Even chicken snakes eat rats and mice.

[TexGardenGirl]

I've always liked snakes (and lizards, and frogs, and all those creepy things). Maybe it's genetic - when my dad was in college he worked summers for a bio prof who did stuff with snakes so my dad had to handle them all the time. Now I still have the reflex reaction to jump, run, or otherwise get out of the way when I see one, because there are plenty of poisonous ones around here, but once I know it's a safe one I like them. I wish we had more - maybe they'd eat the mice & rats...

[LarryS]

The one encounter I had with one I pulled up a low tree branch and quickly stuck my other hand & face under it very close to the ground. I was reaching to pick up something which happened to be right next to a coiled-up copperhead. Fortunately I saw it even as I was moving toward it, but I managed to get my face within about 6 inches of it. It didn't even move until I started backing away, & it basically just turned its head a little to look at me better. .

I know what you mean. I have had several close encounters with copperheads and they usually dont seem agressive, even less so when the weather is cool.


Cottonmouths are a different thing. Nearly got me year before last, lying in wait in my Charentais melons.

I guess most any nonvenomous snake can bite, but unless you get an infection, you are not in much trouble.

Read a story on the plane about a guy on an expedition in the Himalayas area, a well known and certified hereptologist, who was handed a snake that had been misidentified. Turned out to be a krait, and it barely grazed his skin. His account of the progression of the poisoning ended in his death a few days later. Thank goodness we dont have snakes with that powerful and volume of venom.

[woodsrunner]

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v/728/woods_runner/

This is a trial run at posting photos, and I doubt that it works. If it does by some chance, I'll edit and follow up with text info. If it doesn't work and I can't edit to remove this, please disregard!

I've tried to follow directions on how to post photos, but I just can't put it all togather correctly!

[woodsrunner]

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v/728/woods_runner/http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/woods_runner/IMG_1408-5.jpg

This is a trial run at posting photos, and I doubt that it works. If it does by some chance, I'll edit and follow up with text info. If it doesn't work and I can't edit to remove this, please disregard!

OK! IT WORKED!!

This is a male Cottonmouth that I killed two weeks ago tomorrow close to my garden! I didn't measure it, but it was maybe 4 1/2 feet long. My Rat Terrier, "K-9", alerts me to potential problems like this!

[ratdog]

woodsrunner
Wow! That's a big one,glad we don't have them up here. Nice looking Rat Terrier. We have 3 with puppies on the way.

[woodsrunner]

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v/728/woods_runnerhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/woods_runner/IMG_1400-5.jpg

OK....this is my second attempt at posting photos! Lets see if I remembered how I finally got the first one up!

This is a female Cottonmouth that I killed in exactly the same spot as the larger male, but 5 or 6 days earlier....about 2-3 weeks ago now. This is the breeding season for many snakes, and the male was most probably trailing this female. Both chose my garden area as a rondevous point! My Rat Terrier is the hero around my house, and rightly so! Cottonmouths and Eastern Diamondbacks (BIG ones!) are things we casually watch for, but it's the big gators that concern me the most. We live right on a 6,000 acre lake, and in the past gators have caused us problems. We lost one dog to an 8 foot gator right in the yard several years ago. The lake helps mitigate very cold snaps and provides some protection for the garden, but it also causes problems.....fleas come with the dog, you know!

[springfever]

That rat terrior looks a lot like mine. mine is 11 years old and just likes to lay close to wherever I'm at now.
We have 2 other dogs, a 2 year old pinch and a 5 month old terrior/chihuahua mixed. The rat terrior growls at them to let them know to just leave her alone. The 2 year old pinch learned the hard way but the little pup isn't convinced yet.

[Hairy Moose Knuckles]

I'm with Springfever, I HATE snakes. I'm not gonna chase one with a hoe either. If I can get to my 12 guage quick enough, it's toast. I don't care to be bit, even if some aren't poisoness. Snakes bite, it's their nature. I never understood people who keep them as pets either. Reptiles are NOT pets.

[lorna-organic]

Larry, I was acquainted with Dr. Joe Slowinski, the herpetologist who died because of the krait bite. Kraits are southeast Asian vipers. Joe had a reputation for being less than careful in the field, his peers called him a cowboy. He was a field biologist who specialized in vipers. He should have looked into that pillow case to make sure what type of snake it was before he reached in and picked up that snake. He should never have trusted the field assistant's identification of the snake without making sure himself. (The field assistant had placed the snake inside of a pillow case, which is common practice in the field.)

Joe had been bitten many times over the years by various types of vipers because he was not a cautious man. Other viper experts used to tell him that he needed to be more careful. He scoffed at them. The herpetolgoists I talked to think there was residual venom of all types in Joe's body, which made the krait's bite the last straw--the man's body couldn't handle another drop of venom.

Kraits have one of the worst venoms in nature, but that particular krait could not have delivered much venom when he struck Joe's finger. The snake was striking as Joe recognized that it was a krait and flung it to the ground. There wasn't a visible break in the skin. Joe thought he had reacted fast enough that he had not been bitten. Other people looked at his finger and thought the same thing. Within an hour, Joe told everybody that he had been envenomated by the snake, he was feeling terribly ill. I know this because a man I worked with, Dr. Mark Moffett, was part of that field expedition in Burma. He was there during the entire ordeal. They called for med-evac but the weather was so bad, and the field expedition was in such a remote location, it was two days before a helicopter could get in there. By then, it was too late.

Although he is a field biologist, Mark was with the expedition as a photographer for "National Geographic" magazine. He told me what happened in detail, because he was still reeling from the horror of the experience and needed to talk it out with people who had known Joe. He showed me the photos he had, and wanted my opinon on which ones should not be published. He felt very conflicted about having documented his friend's horrible, lingering death. The photos were graphic, Dr. Joe Slowinski's suffering and pain were evident.

I believe coral snakes are the most venemous of the snakes we have in the US. Luckily they only exist in a few states, and are brightly colored so they don't camouflage well. Unfortunately a type of harmless corn snake has similar coloring which often results in the corn snake being misidentified as a coral snake and killed.
Lorna

[woodsrunner]

lorna,

I didn't know Dr.Joe Slowinski, no reason that I should, but I am very good friends with Dr. Bruce Means, a herpetologist well known for his work with Eastern Diamondback Rattlers. You may have seen Bruce's documentaries on EDB's on the National Geo Channel recently. He, too, has been bitten 4 times by Rattlers-par for the course with herpetologists,I think-and he tells me that for about 2 years after each bite he has never had as much vigor and energy, and that his immune system has been awesome! no colds, flu, sickness of any type, etc. He thinks that something positive triggers with the venom in a human body, and this needs to be the subject of medical research!

My Rat Terrier, "K-9", is my constant companion. We squirrel hunt togather, go about everywhere togather, and I feel comfortable knowing that he's on watch around the garden! He has standing orders to keep the deer run out of the yard, and he's pretty good about it, though he does fall down on this job occasionally!

A snake in the garden area isn't something to be taken lightly. We need to keep our eyes open and be cautious, but there is no reason to be so fearful that we can't garden in peace! The probability of being bitten by a poisonuous snake is so low that it doesn't even register.....but still, just be observent!

[lorna-organic]

There are research projects in the works regarding what good might be made of various types of snake venom. No, I am not familiar with Dr. Means, not that I recall. I met a lot of herpetologists, when I worked in a natural history museum at UC Berkeley. I don't remember all of them.

I was afraid of snakes when I took the job, but rattlesnake expert, Dr. Harry Green, and his graduate students taught me a lot about snakes. After a couple of years, I began to teach the public about snakes on open house days. I would sit in a chair with a snake in my lap. Some of the museum visitors would recoil in horror at the sight of the snake, but most of them would come up and ask questions. If they wanted, I would hand the snake to them, showing them how to make the snake comfortable.

Dr. Green's wife was bitten by a rattler, when she was in her late thirties. She went out to run in an Arizona state park before dawn one morning, and put her foot down squarely on a big rattler who was sleeping on the trail. The snake delivered a full load to her calf, both fangs. She was immediately taken to hospital and treated. But things didn't go well. Her leg was heavily muscled because she was a runner. She had to have three surgeries over several weeks to remove tissue which kept dying as a result of the venom. She lost about a third of her calf muscle and had to use a walking cane afterwards.

I met an elderly woman who was partially crippled with arthritis. She was 79, when a rattler bit her finger. She was gardening when she was bitten. She didn't have a severe reaction, but she was unwell for about three weeks. She had hopes that the venom might lessen her arthritic symptoms. A couple of months after she'd been bitten, she told me "that venom didn't do a dang good thing for my arthritis"! She was a FIESTY elder!!

I agree with you that one must be aware of one's surroundings to be safe. I live in New Mexico. I am always on the alert for rattlers. I have a snake free area around my house, no plantings. Most of my garden is planted with wide spaces to minimize hiding places. Any snake which shows up on my property is in jeopardy because of the pair of roadrunners who live here. Those birds are intrepid hunters! I have eight dogs. One of them is a JRT/heeler cross. She is much like your boy, K-9, she alerts me to every little thing. She doesn't have the hunting instinct of a terrier but she is high energy, very alert, always patrolling and a loud mouth. I wish she didn't have to tell me every time she sees that cottontail in the driveway!

Lorna

[Utah Dave]

I too have been bitten by a copperhead, but mine was a big sucker, about three feet long and as thick as my bicep.... Put me in the hospital for three days.. .. But I killed him before I passed out.. Reached down and grabbed him behind the head, pulled his fangs out of my leg and broke his neck... Next thing I recall was waking up in the ambulance.


Buy a Mongoose.

[springfever]

ok, I can officially, not sleep tonight. Maybe tomorrow night..... I agree with the shotgun solution. My husband always says, get the hoe, hoe heck, get a gun.

[Whippet_Lover]

Wow. This is an old post, but will comment incase readers find it like I just did. PLEASE always make sure the snake is indeed poisonous. I lived in Tennessee inthe hills with creeks crossing all through our property. Copperheads were a dime a dozen. As mentioned above, copperheads and cornsnakes can be easily confused. Cornsnakes are GREAT for gardens. They get the mice that damage your veggies, especially organic ones. Also, "way back when" on the farm, if we saw a pine snake, kingsnake, or cornsnake, we'd catch it and put it in barn or garden as these snakes are cannibalistic and will eat poisonous snakes. We would put it in the barn, under the house or in the garden. After we started doing that, we never had any trouble again. Went from 3-4 bites a year to none. If you have a problem with any poisonous snakes, you might buy some cornsnakes to release. They are easy to purchase, and you can buy a color that you can easily recognize as a "friendly." Just make sure you get a variety that is compatible to your climate. If you do a search, you will find a site called "Kingsnake" that is a huge classified from breeders, not wild caught. (IMPORTANT! Do not buy wild caught! They are getting too rare in the wild, and need prtection!) Those folks will advise you as to climate etc. I have a huge red corn now that I named "Ra" after the cobra in the Jungle Book story. I love seeing him sunning in the garden, "on guard" so to speak...

[hikingonthru]

I have been bitten by a copperhead a few years ago, when they strike many people (like me) do not feel them.

shortly afterwards a swollen leg and a light fever, nothing fatal in general.

I had lite syptoms for about 10 days.

wear boots and watch where your put your hands, they are generally not to agressive.

Yep...that is good advice. If it is small, good solid leather work gloves ought to be plenty of protection. In winter, turn your pile frequently to keep any one spot from being too warm for them.

NOW, if this was the dreaded copper-headed water rattler so indemnic to the south, you would be in a world of hurt. That is one mean snake. It is so mean, that if you checked into a Holiday Inn, it would check into the room next to you and wait till you went to the pool...where it would sneak up on you and bite you.

[ovenbird]

I miss having snakes around. Have not seen one in my yard in 20 years.

[lumina]

I am most certainly going to have snake-nightmares tonight. :) I don't like rattlers. I'll let anything else live on my property. In fact, the rattlers can even have the back 1/2 of the property, the brush & the likes, as I'm sure they probably already do. Lots of baby quail & rabbits for them to eat. :)

Didn't realize this thread was so old. :)

[Liberty_Man]

I miss having snakes around. Have not seen one in my yard in 20 years.

I could always send ya a box of em if you want :eek: Non posionous ones though.. i don't have any posionous varieties where i'm at now. Just garder snakes and some small brown ones i don't even know the name of. Find those under logs and stuff.. just flip it over and i could catch you 3 or 4 of em at one time.

Want some??:D

[lumina]

We've killed two rattlesnakes up against the house, under a spigot (same exact spot). After I kept telling myself "quit being paranoid, what are the chances you will find another rattler in the same spot, especially since you haven't seen one anywhere else on the 5 acres". *sigh*

The bigger one had been eating baby lizards (after examination of its innards), which hang out on the deck & around the spigot too.

[Horsea]

I have NEVER been so glad that I live on the Canadian prairie, where the worst I find in my yard & garden are garter snakes. Mind you, when I am surprised by one I feel nauseated - can't help it, I'm just constituted that way. They are good snakes, who eat mice, etc.

I use some hollow-type bricks to make some raised beds and what do I find one sunny morning, but about a dozen ugly little baby gartersnakes crawling out of the bricks. Ugh. I leave them alone. They are not poisonous and would only nip at you a little if you handle them, and not much of that, either.

[grapenut]

Those are common here, and grow much larger than 8 inches. In fact, one was discovered at my sister's house which was almost a state record. We found one in the dog house. I hope you find him and have an axe handy.

I just gotta chime in here, as stumpy pointed out these babies do in fact get much larger than 8 inches! when I lived in northern Arkansas I personally saw several that were at least 3 feet in length... Yes! over 3 feet in length!!! I believe what people here are referring to is the Water Moccasin which IS VERY AGGRESSIVE and looks almost the same as its bigger cus, either way; not good to have around.

[gerry]

I have a series of pictures I wanted to post here of a black snake and a rattler, but I can't figure out how to save them or the post them. Anyone know how to do this?

[Cliff Timmons]

I have a series of pictures I wanted to post here of a black snake and a rattler, but I can't figure out how to save them or the post them. Anyone know how to do this?

You have to have them save 1st on like Photo Bucket or somewhere on line.
2nd you need to save the url of the picture you want to post.
Type the url between here in the thread and they should appear here.

It takes practice and a couple failures and other people explaining it but you can do it.
It also sounds way harder then it is.
I just explain things hard. <Grin>