Proper names and tomatoes?

[werecat]

Ok, I'm going through and making up a spreadsheet of the seeds I want, the seeds I have and all their proper names so I can figure out what I want to put where and so on. I'm using the baker creek seed catalog and the Seed to Seed book as reference to figure out the proper names, but I have a packet of seeds here that I got from Burpee a year or two ago (Yup, pretty much figure I'm gonna try and see if they grow, but if not I'm no worse off that I was. :)) for what it calls Neck Pumpkin Fall and winter Type Any one got a clue as to what the proper name of this beastie is? It's an heirloom I know for sure, but I don't know what it is likely to cross with.

Next, are all tomatoes pretty much the same genius and species? That is what it looks like Seed to Seed is saying, but I want to be sure. I am looking at growing brandywine, yellow pear (cherry size), burpee's jubilee (yelow) and maybe Roma.

[zebraman]

Hey Werecat;Neck Pumpkin is C.Mochatta-
Burpee's Jubilee is a hybrid-
All the same Genius-Yes,However Not all the same Species.
They do ALL have the same number of Chromesomes-24.-

[werecat]

Hey Werecat;Neck Pumpkin is C.Mochatta-
Burpee's Jubilee is a hybrid-
All the same Genius-Yes,However Not all the same Species.
They do ALL have the same number of Chromesomes-24.-
The jubliee is a hybred??? Darn it! I bought that one cause I thought it was an heirloom. Crud! Oh well. I will have to figure out what I can order for the the garden 2008 and just plant what I have for 2007

Ok, tomatoes... any suggestions as to where to look for the species names for the tomatoes I do have that I know are heirloom? The Yellow Pear ones say heirloom right on the envelope as do the Brandywine ones and I'm thinking the Roma ones for canning. Think they will cross? I would really like the proper names for my spread sheet so any suggestions as to where to look for them would be awesome!

[zebraman]

Hey Werecat;All three are L.Lycopersicum.
Which Brandywine?I grow the Red/Reg.leaf.
I would Isolate it if it is PL./Pink-

[werecat]

There is more than one brandywine??? Back of seed envelope says "An 1885 heirloom variety with beautiful, 14 oz pinkish red fruits grow on indeterminate, potato leafed plants. Ready to pick 88 days from setting plants outside." Front of envelope says

TOMATO
Brandywine
Pink

So keep the brandywine and the Roma seperate, what about the little yellow pear tomato? seperate from the other two or does it not matter?

[GrowTheSeeds]

Werecat I have been trying to find a list of heirloom tomatoes and in the search for I sent an email to sse and they said that their directory fo members lists over 3,000. If you know someone who has the directory they might be able to help.

Question on the seperating of the plants? If you are growing to eat and not to save seed from and they are op tomatoes can you not grow them all together?

[werecat]

Werecat I have been trying to find a list of heirloom tomatoes and in the search for I sent an email to sse and they said that their directory fo members lists over 3,000. If you know someone who has the directory they might be able to help.

Question on the seperating of the plants? If you are growing to eat and not to save seed from and they are op tomatoes can you not grow them all together?
If I wasn't hoping to save seed from them, yup. I could grow them all together, but I am hoping to save seed. That is part of the reason I am making up my spreadsheet with the proper names; so I can figure out what I can grow in my garden in containers, what I will grow at mums in the main garden and what I just don't have a prayer of saving seed from. I think I am totally out of luck with squash and mellons. I like too much variety and they are all the cross pollinating types LOL. totally murphy's law I think.

[redbrick]

Cat, there are more Brandywines than you can shake a stick at! There's Red, Pink, Suddoth's Strain, Yellow, Black,...and those are just the ones I know about! The ones I tried didn't impress me all that much, but maybe I didn't try the right ones? Oh well, I've got plenty with my Howard Germans, Italian Oxheart, Mr. Stripey,...you get the idea!

[Brook]

Pink is the original Brandywine. I was introduced in January, 1889, by a Philadelphia seed company called Johnson & Stokes.

Yellow Brandywine was a sport thrown by the original in the early part of ther 20th century.

All the others are merely marketing attempts to capitalize on the Brandywine name, except the Suddeth strain, which was a breeding experiment to see if a Brandywine could be developed that didn't mind heat & humidity.

Z: Are Jubilee and Golden Jubilee different varieties? Golden Jubilee is an OP introduced by Burpee in the late 1940s. As such, it would now be considered an heirloom, as it's been around more than 50 years.

Werecat: At this point in time, Roma describes a group of related, paste-type tomatoes, rather than a particular variety. So you'd need more info for your data file if you're going to include it.

Yellow Pear is a real heirloom, dating to at least 1750. In colonial days it was used to make preserves. IMO, that's about all it's good for, as it is a very thick skinned, fairly tasteless tomato. It got repopularized in the 1980s when upscale chefs rediscovered it as a great looking garnish.

I would not worry too much about cross-pollination among the tomatoes you listed. Brandywine is the only potato leaf type, so the chances of it crossing with anything range from none to slim. As little as 5 feet separation between varieties should just about guarantee seed purity---especially if you're just saving seed for yourself.

[werecat]

Pink is the original Brandywine. I was introduced in January, 1889, by a Philadelphia seed company called Johnson & Stokes.

Yellow Brandywine was a sport thrown by the original in the early part of ther 20th century.

All the others are merely marketing attempts to capitalize on the Brandywine name, except the Suddeth strain, which was a breeding experiment to see if a Brandywine could be developed that didn't mind heat & humidity.

Z: Are Jubilee and Golden Jubilee different varieties? Golden Jubilee is an OP introduced by Burpee in the late 1940s. As such, it would now be considered an heirloom, as it's been around more than 50 years.

Werecat: At this point in time, Roma describes a group of related, paste-type tomatoes, rather than a particular variety. So you'd need more info for your data file if you're going to include it.

Yellow Pear is a real heirloom, dating to at least 1750. In colonial days it was used to make preserves. IMO, that's about all it's good for, as it is a very thick skinned, fairly tasteless tomato. It got repopularized in the 1980s when upscale chefs rediscovered it as a great looking garnish.

I would not worry too much about cross-pollination among the tomatoes you listed. Brandywine is the only potato leaf type, so the chances of it crossing with anything range from none to slim. As little as 5 feet separation between varieties should just about guarantee seed purity---especially if you're just saving seed for yourself.

Fantastic Brook, Thanks! The Roma I was thinking of is one that is in the Baker Creek catalog and that is the only name listed for it. :(

The little yellow pear tomatoes are just for fun, rememberance and to add colour to salads. When my sister and I were little, my parents used to get produce from this sweet little old gent that had a honor system farm stand that everyone in the area loved. He used to grow the little yellow pears around his stand just for the kids of his customers to pick and eat while the parents went shopping. *smiles fondly* he was a dear sweet man. He died not too long ago and it was a sad end for such a wonderful man. He had been in hospital for several years from alheimers (sp) and his sons weren't into farming so the stand and farm land around has been all torn up for some developement. Its a way to remember a really sweet man.

Since you grow lots of tomatoes, let me ask... What is a good yellow one to grow. My mum as a problem with the acid in tomatoes and the yellow ones arent as harsh on her system.

[zebraman]

Hey Brook;Yes they are different.I don't Grow Yellows as they are Bland and Tasteless but Indian Moon is an exception.-
Had to go downstairs-we are having a brunch today.Eastern Native Seed Exchange has Indian Moon.
Also Check out Website At Victory Seeds.They have Original Ads for Brandywine
that Don't match "What is currently the Holy Grail of Brandywine" and it Shows the Original as Having a Regular Leaf and Red not Pink.-
The Suddeth is the Original Potato Leaf.-

[werecat]

Hey guys, Now I really confused. I just found burpee's jubilee tomato on the victory heirloom site (www.victoryseeds.com) and they list them as Lycopersicon esculentum not Lycopersicon lycopersicum. Does that mean that the yellow jubilee can't cross with the reds I am looking at? Or is that an old proper name or is victory just wrong?

[Brook]

All of the above, Cat. ;>)

The scientific name of tomatoes has gone back and forth in a perennial tug-of-war. The three most popular versions are L. esculentum (which is an older name), L. lycopersicum, and L. lycopersicon. The last is the most common form used.

The ag schools, particularly Cornell and Rutgers---which, by the way, have no official status when it comes to naming veggies---keep trying to go with other names. Last one I heard was L. solaris or solarium, something like that.

Because the owner of Victory Seeds is very into ag history (in fact he is trying to grow every known Livingston variety), he uses the botanical name that was assigned to that variety when it was first introduced.

In practical terms, however, you can ignore all that because domesticated tomatoes are all the same species.

[Gary]

Mama may be surprised to hear that all tomatoes have the same or approximate amount of acid. The difference is that some tomatoes produce more or less sweetness/sugars than some which trick us into believing that one may have more acid than others.
For any Plant Information Descriptions you can click on the Link below and have a wealth of information at your finger tips. Dave's Garden Plant Files are available to members and non members alike. Click on -- http://davesgarden.com/pf/
Scroll down and click on Select From Below
Tomatoes is listed there -- Click on Submit -- All the tomatoes are listed in alphabetical order. All the information you could want is listed on each variety there.
Good Luck!
Gary/Louisville

[zebraman]

Hey Werecat; In europe it is listed as Esculentum here it is Lycopersicum.These are two words that mean the same thing.It has only been recently that there has been a major shift from Lycopersicum to Esculentum.

[werecat]

Well that is a bummer. *Pouts* Ok, so I keep my tomato plants seperate so the seeds stay pure. The ever awesome Zebraman gave me the proper name for my neck pumpkins... Some one want to give a try at the proper name of Early Silver Line melons? Anyone grow these? What are they like?

[Gary]

SEED SAVERS EXCHANGE
Detailed Description
One of the most productive melon we grow at Heritage Farm. Small fruits weigh 1-2 pounds. Not a typical muskmelon, these melons have a crisp, white, refreshingly sweet flesh. 75-80 days.
Description with Picture --
http://www.seedsavers.org/prodinfo.asp?number=1207

Gary/Louisville

[zebraman]

Hey Werecat;I grew these a couple of years ago.I classify them in the same Catagory as Queen Anne and Tigger.These are Asian Pickeling melons and the do produce a large # of melons although they don't taste that great.More like a sweet Cucumber.-