Health Insurance Mandate Alarms Some

[older than dirt]

Follow the money
Honey

Its the ultimate tax. LOL your money or your life.

[Liberty_Man]

Originally Posted by FAADAN

I don't agree with the analogy between car insurance and health insurance. I don't have to buy car insurance if I don't want to drive. In the case of health insurance, they would force everyone to buy it no matter what. There would be no option.

I can see it. They are both forced on people. I see your point that a person dosen't have to drive if they don't want to. But i can see that the government has no right to tell anyone what they must buy too.

Originally Posted by HillsideDigger

I have concluded that health insurance in any form is an unproductive drain on the economy.

You concluded right. Those insurance companies just insist on jacking up the price of healthcare for all of us. Entirely unproductive... counter productive even. Only thing is they jack up healthcare costs so high that everyone else can't afford it without their insurance. It's productive for them. Not productive for americans. I'm not sure i'd have the same opinion if there were actually competing for our business. If it were open for all insurance to sell to anyone in any state. Then i might be able to see a use for em. But the way it is now is not a free market system.

Originally Posted by tropicalgrower

I completely understand the need for health insurance.An overhaul of the system is warranted in my opinion,to hold down costs and prevent abuse.

Having said that,I am of the opinion that it migh be a big charade.It seems to me that we hear a lot from the politicos about helping everyone get affordable HC,and even a public option....but could it be that it is just a way to boost Health Care Insurers bottom line to require everyone have insurance?

I mean by now,everytime I hear a politician open their mouth,I wonder what they are really up to..

Could this all be a ruse?Health care profits in the guise of reform?

Mandate...who has the right to mandate this type of thing?

I don't see it TG.. i don't see any need for any insurance. It just jacks up medical costs for everyone else. The only overhaul i'd like to see is the government getting out of telling us that we must buy something we don't want. Let em overhaul their own failed programs first. Then there will be no need for us to worry bout any uninsured people. It's not the uninsured who want the government taking care of them. It's the government telling all us uninsured that we must have them in control of us that needs to be overhauled. Start there. Overhaul the corrupt government.. then we'll be just fine. Maybe if they'd work for the people instead of the lobbiests we'd actually get some work done too.

[fruits&nuts]

Originally Posted by Liberty_Man

I can see it. They are both forced on people. I see your point that a person dosen't have to drive if they don't want to. But i can see that the government has no right to tell anyone what they must buy too.



You concluded right. Those insurance companies just insist on jacking up the price of healthcare for all of us. Entirely unproductive... counter productive even. Only thing is they jack up healthcare costs so high that everyone else can't afford it without their insurance. It's productive for them. Not productive for americans. I'm not sure i'd have the same opinion if there were actually competing for our business. If it were open for all insurance to sell to anyone in any state. Then i might be able to see a use for em. But the way it is now is not a free market system.



I don't see it TG.. i don't see any need for any insurance. It just jacks up medical costs for everyone else. The only overhaul i'd like to see is the government getting out of telling us that we must buy something we don't want. Let em overhaul their own failed programs first. Then there will be no need for us to worry bout any uninsured people. It's not the uninsured who want the government taking care of them. It's the government telling all us uninsured that we must have them in control of us that needs to be overhauled. Start there. Overhaul the corrupt government.. then we'll be just fine. Maybe if they'd work for the people instead of the lobbiests we'd actually get some work done too.

Ditto. Insurance is part of the problem. Making the healthcare system dependent upon insurance payments from inusrance companies introduces an uneeded level of profit taking and also reduces the number of payors which decreases competition. Single payor is the ultimate insult to the system and will increase costs and decrease competition the most. Health insurance in its current form should be outlawed.

[Liberty_Man]

Originally Posted by fruits&nuts

Ditto. Insurance is part of the problem. Making the healthcare system dependent upon insurance payments from inusrance companies introduces an uneeded level of profit taking and also reduces the number of payors which decreases competition. Single payor is the ultimate insult to the system and will increase costs and decrease competition the most. Health insurance in its current form should be outlawed.

I like how you said part of the problem. The real problem is actually the politicians working for someone other than the people who vote for them. That should be outlawed first thing. Make it illegal for all politicians to vote on any bill that they received campaign donations from any of the people who would benefit from their votes. Then make it illegal for lobbiests and special interest groups to donate any money to any politician. Then outlaw campaigning on our dime. If they're govenors and senators.. make em do their work first. Then if they want to go galavanting around the world raising money on their own time.. fine. But so long as they are hired to do a job.. make em do it. And their job isn't to campaign for the next election.. it's to work.

OK.. so i know we can't fix the corrupt politicians yet. We'd have very few left if we kicked out all the corrupt ones. Maybe we could make it where they can't be voting for any party philosophy as a group anymore. We don't hire them to antagonize and play games with each other. We hire them to work... get rid of the labels once they have the job. Every man vote according to what their constituencys tell them they want. That's a novel idea.. make them listen to the people who hire them. Strap em all down in a chair and prop their eyelids open with hair pins... force em to listen to town hall attendees 24/7

I got an idea.. they want to mandate something. How bout we make it mandatory that they go back and fix all that crap that dosen't work. Mandatory that they work for the people who elect them. And mandatory that they start using some common sense and do what is morally and ethically the right things to do. Make it mandatory that they go to prison for lying. Now there's some mandates they can have. I'll go for it!

Now that part bout the insurance.. you know if they want to do whats right.. all they have to do is make it optional for all employers to provide any insurance they don't want to provide. It's not their job to insure us, never was.. you want insurance.. go shopping for your own. And get rid of all the state insurance agencies. They'll be useless anyways with this bill. Eliminate all of those. Make all the states use the same rules as to what a policy must have. How bout we just make it so all insurance companies have to insure everyone who wants it. No pre-existing conditions or old age or anything else to discriminate against applicants. Let em charge whatever they want. Then to show how it's done.. we have to eliminate the requirement that all medicare and medicaid applicants must prove they are pre-death. It'd not only set a good example for the others.. it'd give em some competition. We don't have to just insure the sick and disabled. There is a simple way to fix this mess. Start insuring everyone with medicaid. Anyone who has paid medicaid taxes in their lifetime is eligible. Anyone still wanting it can continue to pay medicaid and social securtiy taxes. Those who want their own.. give em a tax credit for the amount they pay into medicaid and social security and workmans comp from the employers. Let em shop around with any insurance company anywhere. Or if they so choose let em not have insurance. It can be their choice how they want to spend their money. If anyone shows up at a doctor or hospital and can't afford to pay.. bill the government and then have the government collect the tab afterwards.. and you know they can. Any illegal shows up.. treat em.. then deport em.

Problem all solved.. and it not only didn't cost us anything.. it saves us money. You want to make it even more fair we could just take all that tax money from the tobacco and alcohol and put that directly into COPD/lung cancer treatment centers that only smokers can go to for free. And addiction treatment centers that only alcoholics and drug addicts can go to for free. And the Pharmeceutical companies can handle all the rest of the addicts for free. Make em all pay their share. After all we collect the taxes already. We give them billions in subsidys to keep them in business. We've got billions of dollars from the tobacco companies already.. so we might as well spend it on the reason why we say we're collecting em.

Just think of how fast this economy would improve if we just take the employer out of the premium collection business.. and eliminate workmans comp, social security taxes and FICA taxes. Doctors would be able to reduce the waste of having an extra employee for those. Just like all the business would. Wouldn't get the doctors out from under the mountains of paperwork for insurance claims.. but they can always charge those patients who insist on using it a higher rate to cover the staff expenses. It'd only be fair.. make em pay for what the doctors have to spend out of pocket to cater to em.

Anyways.. i sure hope they end this insanity before they bankrupt the entire country. As is it's gonna be trillions in new taxes if that bill does get passed. And just when all those tax cuts expire in 2011. It just is not good. It's just all wrong.

Originally Posted by older than dirt

Follow the money
Honey

Its the ultimate tax. LOL your money or your life.

Actually i can't follow that maze. How bout it starts out at point A as 1.2 trillion dollars... and by the time it gets to the doctors it's 1,200 dollars. Somewhere in between some of it must be slipping thru someones fingers.

I do have a suggestion though. Take a look at your local Community services agency budget. Mine has 15 million budget. That money makes it's way to the public at about one twentyth of what it starts out as. So instead of following the money.. how bout we just hand it over to the patients and let them use it? Cut out all the health and human services agencies and programs and the omnibus acts.. especially the 1981 revision. Cut out all the hands in between. Fire em all. Then i'll follow it

[Osh]

This whole health care overhaul business is not about your health, or saving you money. It is all about the continuous, never ending reaching out of the gov for taking over absolute control of your lives. And they made a pretty good sized dent in our opposition on Saturday. But hey, who cares about this, afterall what's really important to the country is that its football season....got your new tailgate BBQ working yet? And horror of horrors, on Monday nights, Dancing With the Stars and NFL are in direct competition....ghastly decision ahead this evening..oh, alas and what to do what to do....Pelosi needs to tell us which one to watch, as I am so lost on this issue but I am sure she will be getting around to informing us of her decision once all this misguided opposition to her Health Care solutions have died out, er, down that is, and she has time for the more serious questions.