Can Cinventional Ag Feed Us in Drought or Flood?

[Mulligan Man]

Originally Posted by mohoghead

Did you read the whole article op posted,? it described the soils ability to hold moisture and nutrients better in an organic operation during drought periods.

Do you understand the negative effect that delayed planting brings in dry weather?

[fugacity]

Are cover crops and manure a new requirement for organic cert?

[Ohiorganic]

Originally Posted by Mulligan Man

How you be so certain? Some of organic neighbors have no livestock therefore no manure to haul.

These neighbors that I speak of are certified organic.

I am certain because I used to be certified Organic and the USDA NOP did not change the soil fertility regs and every organic farm must have an on farm plan for such. plus if they do not they will remain certified organic maybe 5 years before their soil quits being able to produce much.

So you are saying they do not buy manure or compost for their farm? very strange if they do not bring such inputs onto their farm and a sign that either they have not been certified long enough to know what they are doing or they are simply bad organic farm managers. or you have this wrong and they actually do have a fertility plan and put things like aged manures and compost on their soil. Just because a farm doesn't have livestock doesn't mean they don't have a source for manure and/or compost and don't use it.

[Mulligan Man]

Originally Posted by Ohiorganic

I am certain because I used to be certified Organic and the USDA NOP did not change the soil fertility regs and every organic farm must have an on farm plan for such. plus if they do not they will remain certified organic maybe 5 years before their soil quits being able to produce much.

So you are saying they do not buy manure or compost for their farm? very strange if they do not bring such inputs onto their farm and a sign that either they have not been certified long enough to know what they are doing or they are simply bad organic farm managers. or you have this wrong and they actually do have a fertility plan and put things like aged manures and compost on their soil. Just because a farm doesn't have livestock doesn't mean they don't have a source for manure and/or compost and don't use it.

They are not bringing in compost or manure. They have been certified orgainc for 20ish years. They may have fertility plan but they are not hauling manure or compost.

[Mulligan Man]

Originally Posted by fugacity

Are cover crops and manure a new requirement for organic cert?

Apparently not new or old.

[Silverbeard]

@ohiorganic if you have a minute and know... you were once certified I believe...

Not to take us to far off topic here, but, if as a certified organic farmer you produced your own manures and or inputs from perhaps composted perennial plants would the land the animals food came from or the composted materials also need to be certified??? I would assume the answer is yes, but Im not really sure, some of the organic standards I know of are just strange.

So if the answer is yes, Im wondering how this works. What if I had an orchard for instance, with 25% of it (or other acreage entirely) set up to grow lots of biomass for the in production sections. Can you get land certified that isnt actually ever intended to grow food? I would think if it was growing forage for animals you wouldnt have a problem, but I always wondered if there would be issues if you were simply growing biomass. Basically can you get land certified organic meant to only grow biomass for production lands? and would I even need to bother with that anyway?

Dont you need ALL amendments to be certified? what about something like charcoal AKA biochar? Does it need to come from certified organic land?

What if I raised fish, and watered with the fish water, Id think all the fishes food would need to be organic right? If so what if I feed it insects I catch and raise and plants I grow etc.. Do you think Id have a major hassle having this as part of an organic management plan? This is what I do and its amazingly productive. I just add new water to the fish, but Ive often wondered how much hassle a certified organic farm would have to do if it wanted to both produce all or most inputs themselves and used the fish in this way.

Lots of related questions I could ask, but if someone answers this Id have a good guess at the others..