Heirloom v. Hybrid Production Question

[legallyheidi]

Do hybrids by any chance produce more than heirlooms? I dunno...maybe it's the weather, or soil, or heat, or something...but the peas and beans my parents have grown this year that are heirloom seeds (versus the seeds that we think were hybrid last year...they were told not to save the seeds by the vendor) are not producing as much. I Googled before I asked this, and I kept finding conflicting statements. Is there a production difference, or no?

[Longtail]

Many hybrids are considered more productive, healthier et cetera, due to what is called hybrid vigor. Many are trerminal crosses bred from inbred lines to produce an end result with specific traits.

[Mulligan Man]

Originally Posted by legallyheidi

Do hybrids by any chance produce more than heirlooms? I dunno...maybe it's the weather, or soil, or heat, or something...but the peas and beans my parents have grown this year that are heirloom seeds (versus the seeds that we think were hybrid last year...they were told not to save the seeds by the vendor) are not producing as much. I Googled before I asked this, and I kept finding conflicting statements. Is there a production difference, or no?

Some do some don't.

Many here hold the opinion that heirlooms are superior. But that is only opinion.

Many hold the opinion that a hybrid is better

[BalconyFarmer]

Hybrids usually outperform heirloom varieties, but not always. Sometimes heirlooms perform exceptionally well in a particular region or microclimate, which is often why their seeds were saved in the first place. Hybrids tend to be more versatile and disease-resistant, performing consistently well in a variety of conditions and on exposure to common plant diseases. They may get the disease, but don't stop producing even though they have it, where an heirloom would die from the disease.

[legallyheidi]

Thanks, BalconyFarmer, Longtail, & Mulligan Man. So, is it best to find heirlooms that are area-specific, i.e., a tomato that originated in the Southeastern US to grow?

[Silverbeard]

The modern hybrid is often the product of recent breeding whereas the heirloom if its local was the product of selecting through local conditions.

It seems most hybrids are bred to do well in a wider range of conditions and generally have more direct breeding for disease tolerance and other things.

Asking which is better is a very relative thing in most cases, in cases where hybrid vigor isnt the reason a hybrid does better then a stable open pollinated variety could have the same traits if someone breeds them into said plants. For the most part hybrid vigor only has an effect on outcrossing plants such as corn. So the advantage of most hybrids is actually the fact they had better genetic material in their backround, rather then the fact they are hybrids.. I dont believe the geans you mention would have had the hybrid vigor effect, so they simply carried better traits for the area or season atleast.

So to me finding the best adapted plants to my locale be they old local heirlooms or more recent Op varieties or hybrids I can stabilize is the goal, and perhaps crossing them with other plants with certain traits I want brought into the population. So I basically just look at the traits a variety has, and forget the rest. Even a hybrid, because I can always stabilize it, or work it into my population. It will all be organic and open pollinated in time in my garden.

If it works use it.

[Little Minnie]

Yes all, but there really are no hybrid peas and beans much out there. So I don't think the question is straight forward. The weather this year is making peas and beans hard to grow. I am sure last year's beans and peas were open pollinated as well.

[c1377]

Donkey + Horse = Mule (F1 Generation Hybrid)
Mules are very strong, but they can't produce viable offspring (F2 Generation).

This is how some plants are, some F1 Hybrids are strong, but they produce weak F2's.
I am guessing this is why your folks were told not to save the seed.
Way back when I was in university, there were people working on producing these kinds of F1's specifically so that the customer would be forced to buy again, and again.

[Silverbeard]

You can select out perfectly fine plants out of hybrid stock, only issue is if you save seeds it wont be a stable variety that breeds true. You would have to buy seeds each year if you want the same variety. Some of the F2s would be weaker then where you started, but if you grow enough of them you will find stronger ones as well. Youd need to recross it if you were trying to stabilize it to be just like the parent hybrid. But its a perfectly fine way to start new lines, in fact its really the only way to do so.

[Darth Slater]

Also Silver, the plants used to make more of the hybrids are usually all F1 also, making silings that much more scattered!!
You all have some very good points, but as i told Durgan, for every hybrid, I have an op that will match it in everyway!!